Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Feanor]

have you a link to a photo of her?

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Also a little more info on it. It was a transport ship, possibly a tank transport ship like you said. In 2010 refit was started on it, to turn it into a nuclear fuel transport. Supposedly work was completed in 2012, and virtually all the interiors and equipment was redone. It was placed in the water on October 8 2012, and sea trials are to commence soon.

So no. It can't replace in service BDK ships. In other words, the Ivan Gren is really the only option.

EDIT: CAST has the whole story and a few new pics. Yauza was a tank transport ship, and has been rebuilt to service the Novaya Zemlya training ground, where nuclear weapons, and other munitions, are tested.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/360002.html

 

[KiwiRob]

Thanks Feanor, really interesting history behind this ship, it's always nice to know what kind of vessel your products end up on.

 

[Feanor]

A couple of updates. The S-100 Siebel UAV has been selected for VMF use. The first unit will be delivered for experimental exploitation to the Black Sea Fleet.

This is after both the MVD and FSB purchased the type for their ship-bourne operations.

bmpd -

Also here's an updated pic of the Ivan Gren, under construction, proceeding slowly but surely.

bmpd -

Also, a new rescue ship project 21300S for the VMF, has been launched. However the readyness of the ship is very low, and handover to the VMF isn't expected until 2014.

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/370279.html

What's interesting is that the British company Divex will deliver the underwater rescue equipment for the ship. In other words the permeation of western companies into the Russian defense market is only increasing.

 

[alexkvaskov]

In an interview with Navy CinC Victor Chirkov, a scale model of the perspective Russian aircraft carrier was spotted, sporting a ramp similar to the Admiral Kuznetsov carrier.

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[Feanor]

The Gorshkov and Kasatanov frigates, under construction.

bmpd -

The Gorshkov looks pretty far along. Granted it's been 6 years.

This: bmpd -

is how the Gorshkov looked on May 22nd 2012.

EDIT: A little update on the two project 20380s for the Pacific Fleet.

http://pressa-tof.livejournal.com/61172.html

Work is continuing but very slowly. Partially due to under financing, partially due to the unsuitability of the yard in question. The photos appeared as a repost in the Russian Pacific Fleet press service blog, on live journal. I'll ask and see if there's a current handover date.

There is also an ongoing project for a new aircraft carrier. The existence of the project was confirmed and denied on multiple occasions but different officials. However a model of the new ship was "leaked" during an interview with the Supreme Commander of the VMF.

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-369.html

Apparently at this time the technical project is to be completed in 2014, with construction to start post 2020. These plans could easily change in either direction, depending on how the battle for finances goes between the new Minister of Defense Shoyga, and the Ministry of Finances.

 

[Wall83]

The Gorshkov and Kasatanov frigates, under construction.

bmpd -

The Gorshkov looks pretty far along. Granted it's been 6 years.

This: bmpd -

is how the Gorshkov looked on May 22nd 2012.

Its almost painfull to see how slow Russias shipbuilding is.
In comparestment China has constructed and launched over 15 Type-54 frigates over the same period.

 

[Blackshoe]

There is also an ongoing project for a new aircraft carrier. The existence of the project was confirmed and denied on multiple occasions but different officials. However a model of the new ship was "leaked" during an interview with the Supreme Commander of the VMF.

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-369.html

Apparently at this time the technical project is to be completed in 2014, with construction to start post 2020. These plans could easily change in either direction, depending on how the battle for finances goes between the new Minister of Defense Shoyga, and the Ministry of Finances.

Any information on where the carrier would be built from? I didn't think the Russians had any yards capable of building aircraft carriers (with the possible exception of SEVMASH, and even then I didn't think they had enough slipways for construction, just refit work like with the VIKRAMADITYA).

 

[Feanor]

Any information on where the carrier would be built from? I didn't think the Russians had any yards capable of building aircraft carriers (with the possible exception of SEVMASH, and even then I didn't think they had enough slipways for construction, just refit work like with the VIKRAMADITYA).

They haven't even positively decided to build them yet, nevermind selecting a yard for the work. Sevmash seems the likely candidate. Afterall they are the only ones with experience. After they finish Vikramaditya, they plan on conducting a similar upgrade to the Kuznetsov.

In other news instead of the A-192M Armat, that was cancelled, a new arty system is under development under the OKR Kartaun for the Admiral Gorshkov class frigates. It will also be a 130mm caliber. Meanwhile the current ships will probably get the A-190 as an temporary solution.

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-611.html

You can see in the Nov 14th photo that they mounted the arty FCS radars, 5P-10 Puma, and Fregat RLS.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Looks like a fourth Admiral Grigorovitch class frigate might be laid down this year; one is to be handed over some time next year. Looks like they are well on track to have 6 of these ships in service with the Black Sea Fleet by 2020.

I wonder if the Baltic Fleet is slated for any new frigates.

Keel-Laying Date of Fourth Frigate for Russian Navy Still Undefined

 

[Klaus]

According to AIR International magazine the Be-12 SAR aircraft will probably be phased out next year. The Black Sea Fleet will then request the deployment of several Il-38s. However, the Ukrainian authorities still have to agree, as the Il-38 could be armed with nuclear weapons.

 

[Feanor]

A new oceanographic ship for the MoD has just been completed. It's a project 22010 Yantar. It's carrying a number of unmanned and manned under-water vehicles, including some imported ones.

bmpd -

State trials will begin next year, with complete trials to end by 2014, and the ship will be handed over to the Northern Fleet.

 

[nevidimka]

I'm aware of the latest stealth navy ships being built by the russian navy, such as the Steregushchy class corvette, Gremyashchy class corvette and the Admiral Gorshkov Class Frigates. But Regarding Destroyers or project 21956. I not quite sure.

This link shows a picture of the proposed destroyer. However it is also said, this ship is meant for export and will be ordered by the Ru Navy.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/6933/21956last2520variantsc7.jpg

There's another picture that is floating around, which has been said to be the new destroyer, or a new missile cruiser. The shape and size of suggests that this is a much bigger ship with larger displacement. and the rows of VLS missiles on its front suggest it looks more like a missile cruiser. Is this ship the future stealth cruiser to replace Slava's? fitted with nuclear propulsion? IMO this ship design looks much better as a stealth missile cruiser .Or is it just a fan art?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qqXf4a_a1...AAHNI/gwSZzs7paUo/s1600/Project+22350+DDG.jpg


Can anyone clarify?

 

[Feanor]

There were statements indicating that development has begun on a new type of destroyer, with nuclear propulsion. Nothing about a missile cruiser. I suspect both are fan art or concept illustrations. As it stands, Russia barely has financing and production capacity for major production of frigates and corvettes. A destroyer project would require significant investment into the yards, not to mention tons of money for development and head ship construction. While it's not impossible, it would be challenging to say the least. A cruiser is even less likely.

 

[Feanor]

China just signed a framework contract for 4 project 677E Lada subs. The same ones that the VMF can't figure out if they want or not. Hopefully the export contract will become a vehicle for domestic contracts.

bmpd -

The concrete contract with money and delivery dates is expected in 2015 (which is fairly logical given that the sub is not ready as is).

 

[alexkvaskov]

The Russian MoD has delayed the start of construction of the third and fourth Mistral LPDs from 2013 to 2016. Officially the high cost and difficulty in operating such ships were given as the rationale for the postponement. The two Mistral's currently under construction in France are to be deployed in the Pacific Fleet.

Lenta.ru:

 

[Feanor]

Well the troubled Ivan Gren is scheduled for sea trials next year, with handover to the VMF in late 2013 early 2014. However there still seems to be a disagreement about the exact equipment to be mounted on it, with the MoD wanting Grad MLRS, A-176M arty, and AK-630M AA guns, while Yantar is trying to sell them on the idea of an unarmed troop transport ship.

Lenta.ru:

It would make a lot more sense for it to be a landing ship, to replace current BDKs, rather then an unarmed troop transport. An unarmed troop transport would make an amphibious assault even against an inferior opponent close to impossible, while a BDK would make it quite easy.

 

[Feanor]

A new mine sweeper has been brought out of the factory, getting closer to completion. It's the first ship of the project 12700 Aleksandrit class. The entire hull was made by vacuum infusion, and it's the largest hull of that type in the world. The entire 62m long hull is one whole piece. Launching the ship is planned for mid-2013, and it's supposed to be the first of a fairly large series of minesweepers for VMF, and possibly export (if they can find buyers that is).

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[KiwiRob]

The Russian MoD has delayed the start of construction of the third and fourth Mistral LPDs from 2013 to 2016. Officially the high cost and difficulty in operating such ships were given as the rationale for the postponement. The two Mistral's currently under construction in France are to be deployed in the Pacific Fleet.

Lenta.ru:

Not delayed cancelled according to this report.

Russia Drops Plans to Build Two Mistral Class Ships – Paper


(Source: RIA Novosti; published Dec. 21, 2012)



MOSCOW --- The Russian Defense Ministry has decided to abandon plans for construction of two Mistral class amphibious assault ships under the French license in Russia, business daily Vedomosti said on Friday citing a government source.

Russia and France signed a $1.2-billion contract for two French-built Mistral class ships, including the transfer of sensitive technology, in June 2011.

The first ship, the Vladivostok, is being built at a DCNS shipyard in Saint-Nazaire and should be delivered in 2014, while the second, the Sevastopol, is scheduled for delivery in 2015.

Two more ships were expected to be 80% built in Russia, 20% in France.

However, Russian shipbuilders and many navy experts have always been skeptical about the military necessity to deploy four ships of this class with the Russian Navy, the paper said.

In addition, the domestic construction of the two ships would cost Russia approximately the same amount of money as the French contract, while their future upkeep would lay a heavy burden on the defense budget, according to defense industry sources.

The decision has been made following the recent reshuffle in the Russian top military brass which saw the dismissal of Anatoly Serdyukov from the post of defense minister and his replacement by former emergencies minister Sergei Shoigu, who immediately took the course on streamlining defense expenditures.

A Mistral-class ship is capable of carrying 16 helicopters, four landing vessels, 70 armored vehicles, and 450 personnel.

The French-built ships are expected to be assigned to Russia’s Pacific Fleet.

The Russian Defense Ministry has not yet commented on the Vedomosti report.

 

[Feanor]

The MoD issued a statement where they said that the plans aren't cancelled, only delayed.

 

[alexkvaskov]

Seeing as it will take quite a while for the Russian navy to rearm itself with modern frigates and corvettes, how practical is it for them to upgrade the cruisers and destroyers they have right now with modern missiles and radars/FCS? i.e. replace the SS-N-14 Silex and SS-N-22 Sunburn (Moskit) missiles with Club and Onyx missiles, navalized Tors and Buks with the various navalized S-400 missiles (9M96, 48N6) etc..