Royal Australian Air Force [RAAF] News, Discussions and Updates

[hauritz]

The 2009 white paper called for an additional two C-130Js and 10 tactical transports which would effectively replace the C-130H and the long gone Caribous.

It looks like they got two C-17s instead of the C-130Js.

While extra transports would always be welcome I doubt the new white paper will advocate a transport fleet above and beyond what was recommended in the 2009 white paper.

 

[ASSAIL]

Spartan C-27J

There is a recent article by Nigel Pittaway in the Oct edition of Defence Today mag commenting on the impending purchase of the 10 Spartan aircraft and the lack of probity, apparently, in its selection.

Senator Johnston has requested that the ANAO review the process.
Is this a serious issue, or is it opposition stirring and what is the likely outcome?

 

[gf0012-aust]

Senator Johnston has requested that the ANAO review the process.
Is this a serious issue, or is it opposition stirring and what is the likely outcome?

talk about the Oppn being asleep at the wheel... they're just as clueless, but at least they understand that the militarys primary role is about combat capability

I'm still surprised that the Govt hasn't gone nuts and tried to get the ADF to implement the Spanish HA/S/ND model. The Greens would have been all over it like a rash.

 

[ASSAIL]

I'm missing your point about the Spanish gf.
Do you mean that the ADF slipped under the govt's radar and purchased the Spartan whereas the govt would have forced the C-295 in lieu?

Sorry to be ignorant on this

 

[gf0012-aust]

I'm missing your point about the Spanish gf.
Do you mean that the ADF slipped under the govt's radar and purchased the Spartan whereas the govt would have forced the C-295 in lieu?

Sorry to be ignorant on this

Give me a couple of hours and I'll fill you in - but out of this thread

I was being cryptic for a few reasons - sometimes it doesn't help to be that cryptic /smile on

 

[weegee]

Hey guys,

I came across this in the F35 thread and I noticed that "officially" we are still penned down for 100 planes?
http://f-35.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/F-35-Fast-Facts-November-11-2012.pdf

Is this wishful thinking on my part that the full 100 planes is still a chance in the long run? Or just a basic overview of the program and I shouldn't read to much into it?
Wish we would though as I truly believe that the F35 is the coolest thing in the skies today!

 

[SpudmanWP]

Nothing "Official" has changed

 

[hauritz]

It has alway been around 100 but next year's white paper could change things. I would be surprised if we ended up with the full hundred.

 

[ADMk2]

Hey guys,

I came across this in the F35 thread and I noticed that "officially" we are still penned down for 100 planes?
http://f-35.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/F-35-Fast-Facts-November-11-2012.pdf

Is this wishful thinking on my part that the full 100 planes is still a chance in the long run? Or just a basic overview of the program and I shouldn't read to much into it?
Wish we would though as I truly believe that the F35 is the coolest thing in the skies today!

It's always been "up to 100". Not necessarily exactly 100.

About 100 aircraft is what would be needed to equip 4x RAAF operational squadrons, it's Operational Conversion Unit/s plus provide attrition and test and development aircraft.

At present we use 95x aircraft to fulfill these requirements.

JSF if all tranches are approved will similarly be around the 95-100 mark.

 

[NeoDeGenero]

asdf asdf

 

[Gordon Branch]

Did anyone else notice the that The E-7 Wedgetail has achieved Initial Operational Capability (IOC)? A long time coming but the RAAF now has a class piece of kit operational.

RAAF Wedgetail achieves operational capability standard - Department of Defence

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence Materiel – Wedgetail takes off

 

[gf0012-aust]

Did anyone else notice the that The E-7 Wedgetail has achieved Initial Operational Capability (IOC)?

Depends on how the Proj defined IOC. There is no standard definition and my understanding is that there is still a fair way to go.

Sometimes there is confusion because the Proj may meet "Interim" rarther than "Initial"

the former is a compromise used to get the platform up and about but still work towards meeting OC

All in all, I'm suggesting that the claim about meeting real world IOC may not be so as the press release claims

In fact I know its not so.

 

[John Newman]

The plan for Super Hornet to Growler conversion

In today's Australian Aviation magazine, Chief of Air Force AM Geoff Brown explained how the plan for the Growler introduction will happen.

The main points are:

* The capability to begin entering RAAF service from 2016, with an IOC of 6 Growlers in 2018.

* FOC of all 12 Growlers not until 2021-22.

* Move all Super Hornet training back to the US Navy so that the initial 6 aircraft can be withdrawn from service to allow for their conversion to Growlers.

* The last 6 Growler conversions will not commence until the RAAF starts the transition to the JSF in the early 2020's.

* The RAAF will follow the USN in upgrading the Growler as any changes in capability occur, including the Next Gen Jammer. Quote: "It will be a similar philosophy to what we're doing with the Super Hornet which is very much a USN problem all the way through, so we'll be the fast followers as they change the jet".

* The RAAF will acquire a "mobile electronic warfare" range as part of the Growler acquisition, but only a training capability for the AGM-88 HARM missile, but not warstocks of the weapon. Quote: "We've got a HARM training capability with it, but we are looking for newer missiles further down the track".

* The article also states that 6 Sqn will be the Growler Sqn, which I think was known and announced earlier.


That clears up the question I had of how training for the Super Hornets could continue, moving training to the US solves the issue of possibly having to acquire another 6 or so Supers to continue training.

I'd assume that when the first 6 are withdrawn to start Growler conversion, the remaining 6 "unconverted" Super Hornets will transfer to 1 Sqn control.

That would free up 6 Sqn to concentrate on its new role of being the Growler Sqn.

 

[hairyman]

When will we have enough LightningII aircraft to retire the non-growler super hornets? Should we not be considering purchasing a few more super hornets, for the period when the growler squadron is formed and our super hornet numbersd therefore reduced? I am talking 4 or 6 additional aircraft, not another squadron.
If you remember, our initial purchase of F111 aircraft was 28 aircraft.

 

[John Newman]

When will we have enough LightningII aircraft to retire the non-growler super hornets? Should we not be considering purchasing a few more super hornets, for the period when the growler squadron is formed and our super hornet numbersd therefore reduced? I am talking 4 or 6 additional aircraft, not another squadron.
If you remember, our initial purchase of F111 aircraft was 28 aircraft.

Firstly with the F111, the original plan was for 18 F111A and 6 RF111A, this then changed to 24 F111C's and that's what was delivered, not 28.

There was an "option" for a futher 6, but that wasn't taken up. Many years later after 4 of the C's were lost in accidents, we took deliver of 4 A's which were converted to C's, two more were available, but failed fatigue tests and stayed in the US, anyway there's a lot of history on Australia's F111's if you look for it.

I think the question of another 4-6 Super Hornets, as you mentioned, has been answered by the RAAF sending the training back to the US Navy.

As long as there isn't any more major slippage in delivery dates of the F35's and/or the Classic Hornets don't develop a major structural problem thats too expensive to rectify that might require a significant part of the Classic fleet to be grounded, I can't see the Government ordering anymore Super's.

We are still going to have 18 Super Hornet's plus the 6 Growlers, plus the 71 Classics.

 

[Milne Bay]

We are still going to have 18 Super Hornet's plus the 6 Growlers, plus the 71 Classics.

How many of the 71 classics are actually air-worthy?
I would bet my left *** it isn't 71.

 

[John Newman]

How many of the 71 classics are actually air-worthy?
I would bet my left *** it isn't 71.

I don't know, but I haven't heard that any have been permanently "officially" withdrawn yet because of airworthy issues.

Yes I'm sure that not all 71 are available at the one time, but that no different to any other branch of the airforce, or ADF generally, something is always in maintenance, repair or upgrade at any given time.

As yes, there will be a draw down in strength in the comming years as the oldest and/or most worn are removed from service as we draw closer to the end of the decade when the F35A's are due.

Yes there are 71 in the "pool", but what is the official strength of each of the 3 operational Sqn's and No 2 OCU?

Is it 12 airframes per Sqn or is it more, say 16 per Sqn?

If 12, then that would mean 48 or if it was 16 it would be 64 airframes are required to be available.

I'm sure someone here would know the correct answer to that.

 

[Milne Bay]

Thanks for that John.
I am sure that not all the 71 classics went through the HUG (I think that's the acronym) programme. I would guess, that some of the older airframes that weren't converted may well have been attrited.
Is there such a thing as "extended readiness" in the RAAF - like in the RAN - meaning essentially in mothballs?
Interested to know.
MB

 

[John Newman]

Thanks for that John.
I am sure that not all the 71 classics went through the HUG (I think that's the acronym) programme. I would guess, that some of the older airframes that weren't converted may well have been attrited.
Is there such a thing as "extended readiness" in the RAAF - like in the RAN - meaning essentially in mothballs?
Interested to know.
MB

MB, There were numerous phases of the HUG which I understood was fleet wide, but maybe you are referring to the Centre Barrel replacements?

From memory, in the end around 10 were performed out of a planned 40+ I think.

Recently there was the Auditor General's report released on the issue of sustainment for the Classic fleet through to, I think, around 2020.

Again from memory, the report said that the fleet should all make it to their 6,000hr airframe life, but the report identified that the "majority" of the fleet had exceded their fatigue life in relation to the number of hours on each airframe to this point and that also corrosion was and increasing issue.

But as we know, the RAAF is pretty good at managing "aging" airframes, so unless some major issue arises between now and the F35A's introduction, the RAAF will keep doing what its doing to keep them airworthy.

 

[Todjaeger]

MB, There were numerous phases of the HUG which I understood was fleet wide, but maybe you are referring to the Centre Barrel replacements?

From memory, in the end around 10 were performed out of a planned 40+ I think.

IIRC the CBR was something which was different/distinct from the HUG programme. The HUG programme itself being the Hornet Up Grade programme... Again IIRC every 'Classic' Hornet went through it, to become known as a HUG Bug, amongst the major components of the HUG were significant upgrades to the Hornet-A/B avionics packages, including replacing the APG-65 radar with the APG-73 radar used in Hornet-C/D's and Block 1 SHornets.

-Cheers