Sweden orders more Gripen fighters

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
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Are Sweden's "new" fighters going to be new-builds, or remanfactured JAS-39A/B models, of which they have about 80 odd airframes (I believe) currently mothballed?
 

Wall83

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Are Sweden's "new" fighters going to be new-builds, or remanfactured JAS-39A/B models, of which they have about 80 odd airframes (I believe) currently mothballed?
Acourding to this article the new planes will be new-builds.
Super-Jas blir helt nybyggt - NyTeknik

The A/B variants would be alomost 20 years when the E/F is supose to come in to service.

Switzerland will rent 8 Gripen C and 3 Gripen D untill the first E/F variants will be deliverd in 2018.

Schweiz köper 22 Gripenplan - Sverige - Corren.se - Östergötlands största nyhetssajt

Edit: So with the updating program of 31 A/B planes I gess the Swedish Airforce will have about 90-100 Gripen by the mid 2020s.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
The A/B variants will be over 20 years old when the first E/F enters service with Sweden, according to the timetable in that article. The C/D variants will be up to 20 years old. C/Ds were delivered from 2003 onwards.
 

Wall83

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The A/B variants will be over 20 years old when the first E/F enters service with Sweden, according to the timetable in that article. The C/D variants will be up to 20 years old. C/Ds were delivered from 2003 onwards.
True, i was thinking one decade wrong there ;)
 

SignalGuy

New Member
Good Luck To You, Sweden!

I have found Saab's Gripen to have been an interesting project to follow from it's beginnings. A competant multi-role jet with low costs, reduced maintenance, dispersed airstrip capabilities, and a design that tolerates modification and adaptation quite well. I do hope that these characteristics can be carried over to the upcoming E/F versions. Good luck to you, Sweden!
 

USAF77

Banned Member
A nation of what? 9 million? And now 6 or 7 export customers?
Pretty impressive performance.

I have found Saab's Gripen to have been an interesting project to follow from it's beginnings. A competant multi-role jet with low costs, reduced maintenance, dispersed airstrip capabilities, and a design that tolerates modification and adaptation quite well. I do hope that these characteristics can be carried over to the upcoming E/F versions. Good luck to you, Sweden!
 

RobWilliams

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Staff member
A nation of what? 9 million? And now 6 or 7 export customers?
Pretty impressive performance.
Add another potential in the form of Brazil with their F-X2 competition, which isn't as much as a wild card as some would think compared to the competition.

IIRC Saab have done a fair amoung in terms of investing in the Brazilian defence sector in terms of work on the Gripen.
 

Krijger

New Member
Add another potential in the form of Brazil with their F-X2 competition, which isn't as much as a wild card as some would think compared to the competition.

IIRC Saab have done a fair amoung in terms of investing in the Brazilian defence sector in terms of work on the Gripen.
I hope that Brazil chooses the Gripen, although the decision has been put off again. The [Brazilian] Air Force also prefers the Gripen; however, I suspect that the Government has already decided on the Rafale, but is trying to negotiate a better deal with the French Government.

As well as 36 fighters, a deal with France could include the purchase of 50 helicopters and help with building new submarines.

Unfortunately, I only have a link in Portuguese.
The headline says "Brazil and France to resume discussion about the sale of fighter aircraft in November".

Brasil e França voltam a discutir em novembro venda de aviões de caça - Notícias - UOL Notícias
 

RobWilliams

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As well as 36 fighters, a deal with France could include the purchase of 50 helicopters and help with building new submarines.
DCNS are already building 4 (i think is the figure) Scorpene class submarines for Brazil, with plans for cooperation for designing/building their first SSN.

Although, this chit-chat really does belong in the Brazilian Navy thread ;)
 

Zbigniew

New Member
Sweden has to buy because of the contract with Switzerland. And in the Swiss press is now that they only bought the Gripen because they won't to get rid of Ruag Aviation and Saab maybe signed a deal to take over that state owned company.
Here is the story: tagesanzeiger.ch/schweiz/standard/Wieso-eigentlich-der-Gripen/story/31565770 (sorry it's german, use google translate)
 

Zbigniew

New Member
I think the Gripen E is a very bad choice to be honest. Somehow I like the idea that a small country like Sweden produces an own fighter jet. But sooner or later I think they will stop.
Norway did an open and transparent evaluation and clearly said the Gripen was far from what they asked. Switzerland on the other hand did a secret evaluation and results just leak more and more as nobody seems to understand why the Gripen was favoured to the Eurofighter and the Rafale.
According to the press conference defence minister Mr. Maurer held, he said that Eurofighter and Rafale where far better, the Gripen was only "sufficient". The evaluation process has also been criticized by a commission formed by a part of the parliament.
 

Zbigniew

New Member
Now it has been communicated 2020 the jet will be ready (so in fact probably 2022 or so) and they won't produce a double seater version, just the E model. So Switzerland will probably rent Gripen D double seaters.
When criticized the Defence ministry said: "That took us by surprise. But that's ok, that's an advantage in combat to have more single seaters."

And it's also not sure if Sweden will finally buy so many Gripens. Voices in the air force seems to be a bit sceptic about the value they get for the money.

Strange story...
 
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Wall83

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Now it has been communicated 2020 the jet will be ready (so in fact probably 2022 or so) and they won't produce a double seater version, just the E model. So Switzerland will probably rent Gripen D double seaters.
When criticized the Defence ministry said: "That took us by surprise. But that's ok, that's an advantage in combat to have more single seaters."

And it's also not sure if Sweden will finally buy so many Gripens. Voices in the air force seems to be a bit sceptic about the value they get for the money.

Strange story...
That Sweden can build modern fighters is a rellic from the Cold War when Sweden relly was neutral and had to be able to produce hardware for it self.

Today this is almost gone, Sweden has more or less gotten ridd of its military becouse it has no enemy any more.
The Swedish army is pretty much none existen today, only on paper. The navy has been cut in half with a hanfull of the latest stealth corvettes and submarines left.

And this is also why there are some sceptics about the new Gripen orders. Many high defence officials meen that the money for 40-60 new Gripens has to be taken from other projects in the army and navy, and then the rest of the military branches will just disapear.

The swedish military commander has asked for 3-4 billion SEK extra per year to mantain the defences present abilitys after 2014 if the Gripen orders will go thru. So far the gouvernment doesnt seem to be willing to pay up. About 300 millions SEK a year has so far been promised.

The question is now if this will be enough.

If Switzerland doesnt buy the Gripen E Sweden most likley wont ethier.
 

TrangleC

New Member
I've heard somebody call the Gripen "the Leopard 2 of jet fighters" and I think there is something to that. It is relatively simple and sturdy and was designed to operate in the midst of a Soviet invasion with a minimum of support and maintenance. And apparently it is an unusually adaptive system that is relatively easy to upgrade.
If it turns out to be a commercial success that is bought and operated by many nations all over the world, the comparison would seem all the more fitting.
 

Wall83

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I've heard somebody call the Gripen "the Leopard 2 of jet fighters" and I think there is something to that. It is relatively simple and sturdy and was designed to operate in the midst of a Soviet invasion with a minimum of support and maintenance. And apparently it is an unusually adaptive system that is relatively easy to upgrade.
If it turns out to be a commercial success that is bought and operated by many nations all over the world, the comparison would seem all the more fitting.
I think Gripen could be intresting for many smaller nation that orders 10-30 planes. Bigger nation like India, Brazil and so on always choose bigger producers like the US, Russia or France.
 

SignalGuy

New Member
...and why did they give up on the Gripen? It seems to be an aircraft that delivers maybe 80 to 90 percent of the capabilities of a full size western multi role fighter, while costing maybe 50% less to own and operate. Add in that it can be used from smaller and less developed bases and I for one would think that many nations would want them.
 

Wall83

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Also Sweden has many hard rules about what countrys can buy military hardware from them.
I remember a few months ago when it came up that Sweden had helped Saudi arabia to update anti-tank weapons. It became an outcry from the public and soon later the minister of defence left his office.
So Saab has it very hard to sell Gripens, Sweden dont relly want to buy any large numbers any more, only a few countrys are on the okey list to buy hardware and the competition is superhard in the countrys that can.

Its a miracle that Saab as sold as many as they have relly.
 
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