Indian Navy Discussions and Updates

[RobWilliams]

Is the sub on the picture the Nerpa or just an Project 971?

The picture in the link is INS Chakra and the attachment - according to the following link - is also INS Chakra

Indian Navy Inducts Nuclear-powered Attack Submarine | Defense Media Network

EDIT: By sheer luck, i found the link the previous poster saved the photo from (as the file names are the same)

Livefist: PHOTOS: INS Chakra As She Arrived In India

Confirms it's INS Chakra

 

[Twinblade]

Karnataka to host third big naval air base

Karwar is a beautiful place, sort of a hilly unexplored tropical paradise. I am pretty sure that the settings will make for excellent aviation pictures.

 

[Twinblade]

Is the sub on the picture the Nerpa or just an Project 971?

It is Nerpa, now INS Chakra.

 

[Twinblade]

Indigenous torpedo, Varunastra ready for trial.

Varunastra ready for trials | Varunastra | NSTL | The New Indian Express

Developed by the Naval Science and Technological Laboratory (NSTL), Visakhapatnam with indigenous technology, Varunastra will be tested by the Indian Navy shortly. With this, India is likely to be a part of the select group of nations to operate an underwater weapon with such technology.[/FONT][/COLOR]Weighing around 1.25 tonne, the underwater weapon carries about 250 kg of explosives at a speed of 38 nautical miles per hour. With a circular trajectory, which makes it difficult for the enemy to target it, Varunastra smashes the target (underwater) from both top and bottom. Equipped with the most advanced automatic and remote-controlled guidance system, the weapon uses its own intelligence in tracing the target

Indian Navy will commission a new base in Lakshwadeep islands.
Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

BANGALORE - The Indian Navy has commissioned a new base, Indian Naval Ship (INS) Dweeprakshak, in the Lakshadweep Islands. Located at Kavaratti, the island chain's capital, Dweeprakshak will provide the navy with a permanent and more robust presence in waters that are threatened by pirates.

The Lakshadweep archipelago (Lakshadweep means a hundred thousand islands in Sanskrit) consists of 36 islands, 12 atolls, three reefs and five submerged banks that are scattered in the


southern Arabian Sea, 200-400 kilometers off the southern Indian coastal state of Kerala.

Since 1980, the Indian Navy has operated a detachment in the Lakshadweep Islands. However, in December 2010 a Coast Guard district headquarters was commissioned at Kavaratti and a Coast Guard station was set up at Minicoy. A second Coast Guard station was set up at Androth Island in April this year.

The facilities at Lakshadweep have been scaled up now to a full-fledged naval base.

INS Dweeprakshak is India's sixth naval base and the fourth protecting the country's western flank. It is India's second base in island territories, the other being the base at the Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the Bay of Bengal. Dweeprakshak will come under the Southern Naval Command.

In a good news for domestic shipbuilding, MDL and Pipavav shipyars will now jointly build ships for Indian navy.
Mazagaon Dock, Pipavav ink JV to build warships

Mazagaon Dock, Pipavav ink JV to build warships
Press Trust of India / Mumbai Sep 12, 2011, 14:59 IST
Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Company (formerly Pipavav Shipyard) today said it will form a joint venture company with state-run Mazagaon Dock (MDL) for building warships for the Indian Navy.

"The Board unanimously approved setting up of the joint venture company with MDL to be named as 'Mazagon Dock Pipavav Ltd'," it said in a filing to the Bombay Stock Exchange.


The PSU has selected it as the joint venture partner for building warships for the Navy, it added.
It is for the first time post independence that a private sector company has been selected by Defence Ministry- controlled PSU to build warships together, the filing said.

Indian ships will go on a two month deployment in South China sea.
Indian warships to sail through South China Sea

Fri, 04 May 2012 22:20:06 GMT

Indian warships to sail through South China Sea


New Delhi: India's warships will be on a two-month-long deployment in South East Asia, visiting ports in the region and passing through the South China Sea -- which China claims as its backyard threatening in the past warships of other nations from entering the area.


India's Visakhapatnam-based Eastern Naval Command is sending four of its warships to ports in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines and other nations in the region, as part of its annual long distance deployment of its surface combatants.The warships that will be on the tour are a Rajput-class destroyer, a Shivalik-class frigate, a Kora class corvette and a tanker. "The deployment is part of Indian Navy's annual plans to deploy warships on long distance friendly port calls on both, the eastern and western seaboard," a navy officer said here Friday. The four warships will leave on their voyage early next week and the deployment will culminate in a port call in Japan about a month from now​

India and Japan will hold their first bilateral naval exercise later this year.
India and Japan to hold joint Naval exercise

 

[Twinblade]

Edit: Unreliable Source

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/2012/06/games-being-played-along-indias-eastern.html

In a related development, the DRDO’s Kochi-based Naval Physical & Oceanographic Laboratory (NPOL) has released the first definitive illustration of the next-generation S-5 SSBN, which externally bears a close resemblance to the Project 667BDRM Delta IV SSBN. The illustration, carried on a brochure of the NPOL-developed submarine sonar suite (SSS I-12), which is still under development for the S-5, which will carry twelve 6,500km-range SLBMs. Thus far, India’s MoD has sanctioned the fabrication of only three SSBNs: S-2 (Arihant), S-3 and S-4. Financial sanction for fabricating the S-5’s hull has yet to be obtained. The double-hulled Project 667BDRM Delta IV SSBN has an operational diving depth of 320 metres and a maximum depth of 400 metres. The propulsion system allows speeds of 24 Knots (44kph) submerged while using two VM-4 pressurised water reactors rated at 180mW that drive two GT3A-365 turbines each rated at 27.5mW.

This story hasn't been picked up by mainstream news or other reliable defence blogs.

 

[Twinblade]

Vikramaditya heads out for sea trials tomorrow.

The Sevmash chief would not discuss the refurbishment cost, but the media usually give $615 million as the initial contract price and $2.2 billion as the final price. However, Russian sources have pointed out that 25 per cent of that sum was the cost of training Indian personnel and building onshore infrastructure in India, and another 10 per cent was for additional systems New Delhi wanted installed when the contract was being renegotiated.

INS Vikramaditya all set for crucial, pre-induction trials

 

[vivtho]

Edit: Unreliable Source

TRISHUL: Games being Played Along India’s Eastern Seaboard




This story hasn't been picked up by mainstream news or other reliable defence blogs.

It's a bad copy-paste job from the part of the author .... the text shows that it's been lifted from some other text referring to the Russian Delta-class SSBNs.

 

[Twinblade]

It's a bad copy-paste job from the part of the author .... the text shows that it's been lifted from some other text referring to the Russian Delta-class SSBNs.

Yes, hence the reputation of the author precedes him

Anyhow, if there is an iota of truth in his reporting, it would be rather interesting.

 

[Twinblade]

http://India finalizing mega stealth frigates’ project for over Rs 50,000 crore

NEW DELHI: India's mammoth over Rs 50,000 crore plan to construct seven advanced stealth frigates, with all weapon and missile systems under the hull for a lower radar ``signature'', is finally gathering some momentum now in tune with the overall strategy to build a futuristic blue-water Navy indigenously. This major plan, codenamed ``Project-17A'', will be a strong booster dose for defence shipyards since it will be shared between Mazagon Docks (MDL) at Mumbai and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE) at Kolkata.

``The CNC (contract negotiation committee) is currently underway for P-17A, which has already been approved by the defence ministry. The contract will be awarded after the final nod from the Cabinet Committee on Security. While MDL will build four, GRSE will construct the other three,'' said a source.

This comes even as the third and the final stealth frigate INS Sahyadri built by MDL, under the long-delayed ``Project-17'' at a cost of Rs 8,101 crore, is now all set to be commissioned on July 21.

Defence minister A K Antony will be travelling to Mumbai to commission the frigate, commanded by Captain S Vatsayan, like he did for the first two INS Shivalik and INS Satpura in 2010 and 2011. The seven new frigates will be ``longer, broader, faster and stealthier'' than the three 6,100-tonne Shivalik-class frigates that have a range of 5,000 nautical miles at a cruising speed of 18 knots.

``The new frigates will also have the 290-km BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles, apart from other advanced weapons and sensors, for a greater offensive punch in all the three dimensions (air, surface and underwater),'' said the source.

Both MDL and GRSE are undergoing modernisation, with new modular yards and 250-300 tonne goliath cranes, to enable ``integrated modular construction'' of the P-17A frigates in ``compressed shipbuilding time-frames''. ``The shipyards will also tie-up with a foreign know-how provider,'' he said.

The Navy is increasingly turning ``stealthy'' since surprise and deception are crucial in modern-day warfare. The three Talwar-class stealth frigates (Talwar, Trishul and Tabar) inducted from Russia in 2003-2004 as well as the Shivalik-class warships have already boosted the Navy's combat capabilities due to their ``vastly-reduced'' radar, infra-red, noise, frequency and magnetic ``signatures'' to beat enemy detection systems.

The force, of course, has also recently inducted another stealth frigate, the 3,970-tonne INS Teg, with two more (Tarkash and Trikhand) to follow in 2012-2013, under the $1.15 billion contract inked with Russia in 2006.

$10 billion for 7 P17A frigates !! And it is supposed to dwarf P17 Shivalik class frigates which are already some of the largest frigates around !!

 

[Twinblade]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oUyZ-EDQNHw/T-BPD-dKI-I/AAAAAAAAKxY/BCd6pX3eW5w/s1600/1706_Page_06L.jpg

According to this report, Novantia and Rosoboronexport are not offering AIP subs for project 75I tender, which might either lead to the AIP clause being dropped or leave a two way contest between DCNS and HDW.

 

[Vanguard]

$10 billion for 7 P17A frigates !! And it is supposed to dwarf P17 Shivalik class frigates which are already some of the largest frigates around !!

Frigate sizes are moving closer and closer to the six-thousand mark, fully loaded, as a standard these days; just look at the FREMM, likely sizes for the Type 26 and so forth. The extra equipment and their multi-role nature effectively call for it, compared to latter day frigates you are now supporting a hangar and facilities for two helicopters, substantial air-defences, a role previously left to other warships in the fleet and so forth. To build any design without this sort of capability would be foolish in today’s age.

 

[spikehades]

I still don't understand why India needs 3 carriers. Most of their territorial disputes are land based and I understand they want to protect maritime assets and maintain a presence on the open seas. But isn't 3 carriers overkill? I mean this is a country that is still reliant on overseas aid, has mass poverty and illiteracy and crumbling infrastructure. I think India's recent economic growth has been taken for granted, and their insistence on comparing themselves to China coupled with some inherent arrogance has led to a situation where India wants to become a "great power" whatever the cost.
A little foolish if you ask me.

 

[Cadredave]

I still don't understand why India needs 3 carriers. Most of their territorial disputes are land based and I understand they want to protect maritime assets and maintain a presence on the open seas. But isn't 3 carriers overkill? I mean this is a country that is still reliant on overseas aid, has mass poverty and illiteracy and crumbling infrastructure. I think India's recent economic growth has been taken for granted, and their insistence on comparing themselves to China coupled with some inherent arrogance has led to a situation where India wants to become a "great power" whatever the cost.
A little foolish if you ask me.

Raise Train and sustain,

One at sea, one in drydock and one training to go to sea, an aircraft carrier gives india flexibility to attack targets from two fronts ie by land and sea very simple really.

 

[Twinblade]

$10 billion for 7 P17A frigates !! And it is supposed to dwarf P17 Shivalik class frigates which are already some of the largest frigates around !!

Frigate sizes are moving closer and closer to the six-thousand mark, fully loaded, as a standard these days; just look at the FREMM, likely sizes for the Type 26 and so forth. The extra equipment and their multi-role nature effectively call for it, compared to latter day frigates you are now supporting a hangar and facilities for two helicopters, substantial air-defences, a role previously left to other warships in the fleet and so forth. To build any design without this sort of capability would be foolish in today’s age.

Well P17 Shivalik class frigates are already at 6200 ton mark and the new P17A design, being significantly heavier would have a significant capability overlap with P15A Kolkata class destroyer (6800 tons) which should get commissioned later this year. IMO, P17A should be a design modification of P15A instead of being a brand new design.

 

[spikehades]

Raise Train and sustain,

One at sea, one in drydock and one training to go to sea, an aircraft carrier gives india flexibility to attack targets from two fronts ie by land and sea very simple really.

Fair point. But someone still has to convince me as to why India needs a constant carrier presence?
Other countries seem to get by without this "comprehensive" capability.

 

[Twinblade]

Fair point. But someone still has to convince me as to why India needs a constant carrier presence?
Other countries seem to get by without this "comprehensive" capability.

Indian EEZ is roughly 70% of Indian mainland in terms of area and in case of conflict the navy is expected to choke enemy sloc from strait of hormuz till malacca with number of surface combatants slightly more than Royal Navy. Other countries seem to do without this comprehensive ability because they are most likely to fight alongside their allies. The countries which want to retain the capability to provide air cover for long distance deployment on their own are getting their own carriers (UK, France, Russia, China, India)

 

[spikehades]

Indian EEZ is roughly 70% of Indian mainland in terms of area and in case of conflict the navy is expected to choke enemy sloc from strait of hormuz till malacca with number of surface combatants slightly more than Royal Navy. Other countries seem to do without this comprehensive ability because they are most likely to fight alongside their allies. The countries which want to retain the capability to provide air cover for long distance deployment on their own are getting their own carriers (UK, France, Russia, China, India)

OK, OK I get it. India wants to be able to take on and defeat a 1st tier power. But, which 1st tier power is about to threaten India's maritime assets. Does China or anyone else have a claim on the India ocean? Pakistan cannot threaten India's navy in any meaningful way. If you ask me , internal unrest due to widespread poverty and massive income disparity is a greater threat to India's national security than some imagined naval threat.

This for me is more about a lust for prestige and perceived power by India's elites rather than a real military threat assessment.

 

[dragonfire]

There is economic disparity

There is poverty

There are also areas (hinterlands) which face internal security challenges

This however is a thread to discuss specific military capabilities so you are slightly off topic discussing non-military aspects.

India has a stated interest to become a True Blue water navy with capability to project power far beyond the Indian shores. Carriers are a corner stone to that capability. 3 Carriers are projected as the requirement so that atleast one or two are available for operations while the rest are in re-fit or otherwise docked.

In case you have an opinion from military perspective not economic or otherwise on why India shouldn't have as many Carriers then pls do share your thoughts

 

[ngatimozart]

OK, OK I get it. India wants to be able to take on and defeat a 1st tier power. But, which 1st tier power is about to threaten India's maritime assets. Does China or anyone else have a claim on the India ocean? Pakistan cannot threaten India's navy in any meaningful way. If you ask me , internal unrest due to widespread poverty and massive income disparity is a greater threat to India's national security than some imagined naval threat.

This for me is more about a lust for prestige and perceived power by India's elites rather than a real military threat assessment.

In its last war with Pakistan (1973) India used its carrier to keep the Pakistani Navy bottled up. India has two nuclear armed adverseries, Pakistan and China and it has fought wars against both. The PLAN is developing blue water capability and a carrier battle group capability although it has a long way to go with that one. As stated elsewhere here Indias area of interest and its SLOC sit between two choke points, the Straits of Malacca and the Gulf of Hormuz and Suez Canal. It also has the Indian Ocean which stretchs down to the Great Southern Ocean to the south and from Africa in the west to Australia in the east. Therefore the Indian Navy has a very large area to cover and it has to be able to operate against enemies great and small. The ability to operate aircraft carriers gives the navy greater capability and it gives India the ability to project its power far beyond its borders.

India is a country with a long and great history and it has made available the resources to provide for its security. It is a nation that now feeds itself and is a rapidly developing economy. As far as I am aware it no longer reliant upon foreign aid (unlike another nation which ensures the US pays for a lot of its defence purchases when its quite capable of paying for them itself) and so I think that claim maybe somewhat dated. I would suggest some reading about India in the 21st Century.

Finally as Dragonfire says there is some poverty and economic disparity in India. I live in a socalled first world country, part of the OECD and we have gross economic disparity and poverty along with marginalisation and discrimination. So my question to you then would be what makes India different to New Zealand if we are using your criteria for assessing a country?

 

[spikehades]

In its last war with Pakistan (1973) India used its carrier to keep the Pakistani Navy bottled up. India has two nuclear armed adverseries, Pakistan and China and it has fought wars against both. The PLAN is developing blue water capability and a carrier battle group capability although it has a long way to go with that one. As stated elsewhere here Indias area of interest and its SLOC sit between two choke points, the Straits of Malacca and the Gulf of Hormuz and Suez Canal. It also has the Indian Ocean which stretchs down to the Great Southern Ocean to the south and from Africa in the west to Australia in the east. Therefore the Indian Navy has a very large area to cover and it has to be able to operate against enemies great and small. The ability to operate aircraft carriers gives the navy greater capability and it gives India the ability to project its power far beyond its borders.

India is a country with a long and great history and it has made available the resources to provide for its security. It is a nation that now feeds itself and is a rapidly developing economy. As far as I am aware it no longer reliant upon foreign aid (unlike another nation which ensures the US pays for a lot of its defence purchases when its quite capable of paying for them itself) and so I think that claim maybe somewhat dated. I would suggest some reading about India in the 21st Century.

Finally as Dragonfire says there is some poverty and economic disparity in India. I live in a socalled first world country, part of the OECD and we have gross economic disparity and poverty along with marginalisation and discrimination. So my question to you then would be what makes India different to New Zealand if we are using your criteria for assessing a country?

what makes India different to New Zealand if we are using your criteria for assessing a country? - Order of magnitude.
military reason against acquiring 3 carriers - India does not have sufficient ASW assets or experience to protect those expensive carriers for which it sacrificed so much for, namely; feeding the hundreds of millions of people who live on less than 1 dollar a day, stopping child slavery, eradicating malaria and tuberculosis, increasing literacy rates, stopping the traffiking of women, implementing healthcare, building its infrastructure, etc, etc ad infinitum.