Sharpshooter rifle can positively identify targets up to 1300m its a 7.62mm x 51 calibre rifle not a shotgun the M3/M4 max range is out to 100m with solid shot same barrel for both shot.
Shotguns still in widespread military service ?
- Thread starter Eeshaan
- Start date
winnyfield
New Member
Aussies issued M16s (replaced 9mm smg) to their forward scouts in Vietnam. Full-auto vs buckshot.
EXSSBN2005
New Member
Shotguns were/are standard issue to all US Navy ships while I was in (from 99-05) and they still probably are due to their ability to spread patterns vice faster shooting from automatics (the topside guys for when in port had to qualify m-16, shotgun, pistol (ours were m-9 not sure about whole service issued guns) and m203. Guys whos in port watch stations were below deck (engineering types and officers) only had to qual on pistol and shotgun.
On the civilian side while hunting using saboted slugs my sister has killed deer out to about 150m while my rifle 30-06 i have got them out to about 250 but I could probably go out to 400m if I practiced shooting at that range, it can shoot further but thats the max range from my blind that I can shoot at clearly.
On the civilian side while hunting using saboted slugs my sister has killed deer out to about 150m while my rifle 30-06 i have got them out to about 250 but I could probably go out to 400m if I practiced shooting at that range, it can shoot further but thats the max range from my blind that I can shoot at clearly.
It was the same with the Malaysian army during its counter insurgency campaign. 'Leading Scouts' that were previously armed Sterlings, were issued 653 carbines, as well as shot guns.
An interesting article on why the British started using shotguns in jungle patrols during the Malayan Emergency. The article mentions that the preferred shotgun was the Browning A5 borrowed from the NZ SAS, used on helicopters.
Old War Dogs
Our doctrine was the same during the Malay Emergency for every thing tactics, weapon issue etc it changed during the Vietnam era due to a number of reasons.
CD
Iraq
From my time in Iraq I learned a few things about the shotgun, as others have said yes they are still in use. I saw a lot of guys using the shotgun while I was deployed, they were primarily used as a breeching device.
There is something that hasn't been brought up here though, Iraq is a wide open country so what would the sense of any Iraqi having a shotgun? None. So when a US soldier comes walking in for a meeting or sit down with some locals and they are carrying a shotgun who's barrel is huge and delivers a huge blow up close. Well needless to say it had a psychological impact, their culture is different from western and they had no experience.
Also much like having an axe on your leg, it had a massive psychological impact and acted as a weapon which would gain respect with the locals.
From my time in Iraq I learned a few things about the shotgun, as others have said yes they are still in use. I saw a lot of guys using the shotgun while I was deployed, they were primarily used as a breeching device.
There is something that hasn't been brought up here though, Iraq is a wide open country so what would the sense of any Iraqi having a shotgun? None. So when a US soldier comes walking in for a meeting or sit down with some locals and they are carrying a shotgun who's barrel is huge and delivers a huge blow up close. Well needless to say it had a psychological impact, their culture is different from western and they had no experience.
Also much like having an axe on your leg, it had a massive psychological impact and acted as a weapon which would gain respect with the locals.
The program does say it's the range of the shotgun though
Must be a mistake on BFN's part.
Maybe not - I'd expect a slug to travel 1,300m if fired with a bit more of a 'howitzer' trajectory - It's probably not what you'd call combat range though!
It is probably just the danger zone. Well I suppose they could be holding it 33.2m (110 ft) high.
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Hey RW,
We have the M3 Bennilli & the same ammo (Solid shot) as the UK Army & I can tell you there is no way the solid slug can travel out to 1300m, max distance after a bit of training was 120 /150m tops using the long barrel you could see the shot dropping pass 100m.
My understanding after watching the video is they are talking about the marksman weapon first which to me makes sense out to 1300m
Last edited:
winnyfield
New Member
Were shotgun carrying soldiers also strapped with pistols?
Traditionally, in 'those' ('strong men') societies, rifles were the the commoners weapon. Only the officers, secret police and executioners had pistols.
the road runner
Active Member
Agreed.He's talking about the 7.62 x 51mm going out to 1300 meters.
I spoke to a few mates and one of my mates actually has a bolt action rifled shotgun.He says solids will only go out to 100 meters(80 meters accuracy),but they destroy what they hit.Looks like im going to the range to have a play
:Seems alot of Hunters use 12G(Savage 212) solid shot on big game such as samba/buff ect.
If it works on big game,imagine what it would do to a 100 Kg person.Must be a very intimidating weapon on the battlefield,with a semi auto capability.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HuVkXLreWE&feature=player_embedded"]12 Gauge Foster Slug in Ballistic Gel - YouTube[/nomedia]
The above video shows a Foster slug ( not solid shot) on some ballistic gel.The gel comes off second best,imagine what a solid would do.
Have fun RR on the range we sure did had a blast but more importantly we also learnt the strengths & weakness of the solid shot .Agreed.He's talking about the 7.62 x 51mm going out to 1300 meters.
I spoke to a few mates and one of my mates actually has a bolt action rifled shotgun.He says solids will only go out to 100 meters(80 meters accuracy),but they destroy what they hit.Looks like im going to the range to have a play
Seems alot of Hunters use 12G(Savage 212) solid shot on big game such as samba/buff ect.
If it works on big game,imagine what it would do to a 100 Kg person.Must be a very intimidating weapon on the battlefield,with a semi auto capability.
12 Gauge Foster Slug in Ballistic Gel - YouTube
The above video shows a Foster slug ( not solid shot) on some ballistic gel.The gel comes off second best,imagine what a solid would do.
CD
Depended on the soldier. Some would care their side arms with them others wouldn't.
That wouldn't make sense though, they'd finished the part on the marksman weapon + just introduced the shotgun, I can't see them naming the range of the shotgun then suddenly flipping to the rifle without mentioning it + then calling the round 'solid shot', at least, i don't see them doing it
Mate there is no way in hell a solid shot from a M4 shotgun is going to touch someone at 1300m its a low velocity round, we use the same ammo for breaching & lethal engagement in built up areas out to 100m.That wouldn't make sense though, they'd finished the part on the marksman weapon + just introduced the shotgun, I can't see them naming the range of the shotgun then suddenly flipping to the rifle without mentioning it + then calling the round 'solid shot', at least, i don't see them doing it
Those soldiers were talking about the ability to observe out to 1300m with the sighing system on top of the marksman rifle ive spent the last 26 years knowing weapon systems and there characteristics and how to employ those said systems in my Army so please move on.
CD
I'm not saying it could fire that far, what i'm saying is that it must be a mistake by BFN, they already said it could positively ID people @1300m. I'm lead to believe it's a mistake by BFN on the fact that it refers to it's projectile as 'solid shot' rather than a round or bullet or whatever.
My point is they'd already gone over that rifle + now they were talking about the characteristics of the shotgun, which is why i believe it must be a mistake as you wouldn't refer to a regular combat rifle as firing solid shot.
I dont think it was a mistake just poor editing by BFN, even Army News has mistakes in it.
the road runner
Active Member
Mate i had alot of fun ,should have seen the look on people faces ,cycling the action and hearing the BOOM! I was amazed with the amount of recoil,just felt like a 12G with a little more ompf. Was hard to get a good group my best 2 inches @ 50 meters.
Think id be right in saying they are not as accurate(compared to a rifle) ,but they have stopping power.My mate hunts camel/buff with his ,one shot drop, pushing out a solid @1800-2200 fps depending on his load.
Funny thing is he reloads old 50 cal brass that he has tinkered with.Some brass has been loaded 50 times plus witch i found pretty impressive.
The pressure on the brass n barrel is well distributed,i assumed it would not be that way.I was quiet surprised.