F-35 Multirole Joint Strike Fighter

[Twinblade]

Japan tells U.S. it may halt F-35 purchase if prices rise

TOKYO (Kyodo) -- The Defense Ministry has indicated to the U.S. Department of Defense the possibility of halting purchases of the F-35 stealth jet, which Japan has picked as its next-generation mainstay fighter, if prices skyrocket, sources close to Japan-U.S. ties said Wednesday.
In a letter dated Feb. 13, the ministry expressed its concern to the Pentagon over a rise in the price tag of the F-35, which is being developed by an international consortium led by U.S. aircraft maker Lockheed Martin Corp., the sources said.
The ministry also requested a review of the procurement system under a foreign military sales arrangement that allows the United States to change prices at its discretion, the sources said.

The Japanese, it seems, are wary of a price rise.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Japan tells U.S. it may halt F-35 purchase if prices rise


The Japanese, it seems, are wary of a price rise.

I wouldn't see it as anything untoward - everyone is going to review and visit their procurement if prices head north - thats perfectly normal and should just serve as a warning to the host parties

 

[Andrew McL]

It seems the partner nations are also getting restless...

JSF partners to march on Washington | Australian Aviation Magazine

 

[gf0012-aust]

It seems the partner nations are also getting restless...

JSF partners to march on Washington | Australian Aviation Magazine

Lockmart will pay the price if they keep on slipping as it will mean that LRIP partners will unlock PLAN B solutions.

If those plan "b's" involve their direct competitors (Boeing) then they'll end up with not only deferred but reduced buys.

Boeing will breathe a sigh of relief as they'll get a stay of execution as the revenue from other air was going south - and they'll be back in the game.

Ironically, it could see both Rafale and Typhoon cop some oxygen as well.

LM's mistake has been to assume that the timelines and capability requirement will drive patience.

 

[AMTP10E]

I wouldn't be suprised if we saw more reprograming of US buys (fewer aircraft over the next 6 or so years) with the almost certain never to be realised idea of buying them in later years.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I wouldn't be suprised if we saw more reprograming of US buys (fewer aircraft over the next 6 or so years) with the almost certain never to be realised idea of buying them in later years.

we'll be getting a clue within the month..

 

[jack412]

I guess there isn't a hope in hell of the current Aussie risk assessment being publicly released.
The uniforms seem keen on waiting if this is accurate, while Smith is on the verge of jumping
Up in the air: risky business

Will the announced upgrading of a further 14 legacy hornets and probable 6 growlers be enough to sway the balance of risk?

 

[gf0012-aust]

I guess there isn't a hope in hell of the current Aussie risk assessment being publicly released.
The uniforms seem keen on waiting if this is accurate, while Smith is on the verge of jumping
Up in the air: risky business

Will the announced upgrading of a further 14 legacy hornets and probable 6 growlers be enough to sway the balance of risk?

RAAF and Govt are committed to JSF - the issue is about how many and when.

there's an aversion to a mixed fleet of type, so one would say that Shornets won't stay as the force de majeur fixed wing element

 

[Abraham Gubler]

If additional Super Hornets are acquired their eventual replacement and disposal could be incorporated with the current 24 and as part of AIR 6000 Phase 2C. This bridge will have to be crossed with 24 Super Hornets at some time so would not make too much of a difference if it was with 36 units. The next phase F-35 commitment could be reduced from 58 to 46 (on top of the current 14) and Phase 2C increased from 24 to 36 F-35s or another option as has been Defence’s plan for the past 10 years. Whether this happens in the 2020s with additional F-35s or in 2030s with something different (or more F-35s as the line will still be open) is an option already facing the RAAF.

If we acquired another 12 Super Hornets (they sell them in 12 strong batches) then they could replace 16 classic Hornets with the balance in air crew providing for the start in F-35 build up. One of the Williamtown squadrons could convert and perhaps relocate to Amberley to consolidate Super Hornet maintenance at one location. The classic Hornet fleet would then be reduced to about 40 flying aircraft out of 70+ enabling a reduction in overall drain on their airworthiness allowing for additional years of flying until the delayed F-35s are available.

An extra 12 Super Hornets (likely E models because we don’t have 10-20 fast jet ACOs sitting around doing nothing) would provide a significant capability boost from 2014-2020 until the F-35s are in squadron service. Having 36 Block II Super Hornets in E, F and G configurations until the F-35 is on hand would enable a full squadron to be sustained on deployment if it was needed.

 

[the road runner]

The Marines have introduced the JSF "B" Version .Training will soon take place.This has to be a very exciting time for the Marine forces ,and i thought they were going to cancel the B version.

Marine Corps Aviation Introduces F-35B Lightning II Into Fleet | Aviation & Air Force News at DefenceTalk

Wonder what the haters are saying about this milestone for the JSF.

@ AG couldnt we use the F-18 Supers as an aggressor Squadrons once JSF are delivered? ,or give/sell them to our NZ cousins for a major discount?

Think the F-18 Supers could be used to kill 2 birds with one stone.Ie Stop gap measure for RAAF, and then a Fast jet force for NZ.

 

[jack412]

They seem happy with the results of the night testing so far too.
I didn't consider how much would be involved in lighting

http://www.afmc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123290812
"Some of the feedback we've received from the pilots is that this is some of the best internal cockpit lighting they've flown," said McKinnon. "Everything [in the cockpit] dims down really nicely, lighting is optimized and the landing taxi light is really bright. I think that's incredible for having an unsuitable solution just a couple months ago."

 

[Air Force Brat]

F-35A Cleared for Initial Operations at Eglin

Gen Donald Hoffman announces the F35A has been cleared for initial operations to begin at Eglin AFB by the Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright Pat AFB, he defined these initial flights by qualified pilots as limited, scripted, and conducted within the restrictions and stipulations of the MFR. Yesterdays AFA daily report quoted Air Combat Command Chief, Gen Michale Hostage as stating "buying sufficient F-35s is a national imperative". Sounds like we don't have to worry about the USAF doing their part to get this bird up and running, or their commitmant to maintaining the Air Force role in ground support etc, etc.:gun

 

[jack412]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could keep the politicians out of procurement.
If I ruled the world for a day, gov would set the budget and the defense forces would spend it on what they need.

It looks like the UK is revisiting throwing out 20 years of CONOPS and may change their minds again

UK aircraft carrier plans in confusion as ministers revisit square one | UK news | The Guardian
Now, in an extraordinary volte-face, the Ministry of Defence says the "cats and traps" planes may well be cheaper but it would be too expensive to redesign a carrier – more than £1bn – to accommodate them. The ministry is thus faced with the prospect of renegotiating a deal with the US, reverting to its original plan – namely buying the short take-off and vertical landing version of the aircraft, even though it is acknowledged to be less effective and more expensive .

 

[Air Force Brat]

Wouldn't it be wonderful if you could keep the politicians out of procurement.
If I ruled the world for a day, gov would set the budget and the defense forces would spend it on what they need.

It looks like the UK is revisiting throwing out 20 years of CONOPS and may change their minds again

UK aircraft carrier plans in confusion as ministers revisit square one | UK news | The Guardian
Now, in an extraordinary volte-face, the Ministry of Defence says the "cats and traps" planes may well be cheaper but it would be too expensive to redesign a carrier – more than £1bn – to accommodate them. The ministry is thus faced with the prospect of renegotiating a deal with the US, reverting to its original plan – namely buying the short take-off and vertical landing version of the aircraft, even though it is acknowledged to be less effective and more expensive .

I couldn't agree more jack, same thing on this side of the pond, the Hi of the Hi/Lo mix was the baby that got thrown out with the bathwater, its a shame our allies couldn't have the airplane they wanted and we all had to settle for 1/2 the package. Like having a German choclate cake without the iceing. Thats what happens when liberal politicians are chosing our defensive weapons based on how big a slice of the pie they get, changing 50 years of CONOPS. I really do think the F-35 is making some rather rapid progress, but there continue to be to many compromises in this whole operation and a lack of clear vision as to where this bird needs to shine.

 

[jack412]

Procurement is a dirty business alright and I can't see it changing, but the current UK gov is right wing, so I dont really know what you're on about there.
Australia wanted the f-35 and rejected the f-22, as it wouldn't suit our needs or budget.

yes, everything is a compromise and it makes it harder when USA congress combined the different projects into one, but I saw that one of the bosses said that the f-22 is the best striker in the world except for the f-35 and that the f-35 is the best A2A in the world except for the f-22.
At this point of time I have no reason to doubt that this is the case

 

[Air Force Brat]

Procurement is a dirty business alright and I can't see it changing, but the current UK gov is right wing, so I dont really know what you're on about there.
Australia wanted the f-35 and rejected the f-22, as it wouldn't suit our needs or budget.

yes, everything is a compromise and it makes it harder when USA congress combined the different projects into one, but I saw that one of the bosses said that the f-22 is the best striker in the world except for the f-35 and that the f-35 is the best A2A in the world except for the f-22.
At this point of time I have no reason to doubt that this is the case

Well the Obama administration has foisted a socialized medicine program on the US that is is the process of putting the American bus community out of business and has cut 500 billion from medicare for seniors to do it , 500 billion from defense, to be followed by another 500 billion from defense, and in general screwed up things in Afghanistan and Pakistan, at present its not the congress, but the president and dem controlled senate that seem to be at war with america. While you oz boys have given up on the F-22, Japan, Australia, Israel, initially had requested f-22, Sec Gates called the F-35 the 75% solution, when he decided to cancel the F-22. I have seen the Raptor, up close and personal, and I have seen it perform, if you haven't, then I would withhold judgement. I haven't seen the F-35 perform, guess why, because it hasn't performed? And it was a Dem, Rep David Obey, and a dem congress that outlawed export of F-22.

 

[Bonza]

Well the Obama administration has foisted a socialized medicine program on the US that is is the process of putting the American bus community out of business and has cut 500 billion from medicare for seniors to do it , 500 billion from defense, to be followed by another 500 billion from defense, and in general screwed up things in Afghanistan and Pakistan, at present its not the congress, but the president and dem controlled senate that seem to be at war with america. While you oz boys have given up on the F-22, Japan, Australia, Israel, initially had requested f-22, Sec Gates called the F-35 the 75% solution, when he decided to cancel the F-22. I have seen the Raptor, up close and personal, and I have seen it perform, if you haven't, then I would withhold judgement. I haven't seen the F-35 perform, guess why, because it hasn't performed? And it was a Dem, Rep David Obey, and a dem congress that outlawed export of F-22.

Two things:

1. Leave the politics out of it. I don't care who you vote for, politics aren't a topic for these boards and you've brought it up repeatedly. This will be the only warning you get.

2. This F-22 vs F-35 business has been done to death, over and over again. If you want to see more of it use the search function of the forums instead of adding the same, tired arguments over and over again.

 

[jack412]

While you oz boys have given up on the F-22, Japan, Australia, Israel, initially had requested f-22,.

It's said Australia was offered it, but never requested or officially asked to buy the f-22, it lost out in our initial evaluations early 2000. As Bonza said, it has been done to death

 

[gf0012-aust]

It's said Australia was offered it, but never requested or officially asked to buy the f-22, it lost out in our initial evaluations early 2000. As Bonza said, it has been done to death

I was out the 2006 Procurement brief where the US SecDef stated in front of the entire list that if Aust wanted the F-22 the USG would do its best to facilitate it through congress etc...

The aircraft was not wanted, not needed and would have caused a force imbalance in the rest of the ADF that would have been indefensible to everyone except the biggles brigade

And as Bonza has said, this has been done to death.

Newcomers, diehards, enthusiasts. Its dead, done, dusted.

 

[Air Force Brat]

I was out the 2006 Procurement brief where the US SecDef stated in front of the entire list that if Aust wanted the F-22 the USG would do its best to facilitate it through congress etc...

The aircraft was not wanted, not needed and would have caused a force imbalance in the rest of the ADF that would have been indefensible to everyone except the biggles brigade

And as Bonza has said, this has been done to death.

Newcomers, diehards, enthusiasts. Its dead, done, dusted.

Great, then I won't feel sorry for ya'll anymore if ya got what you want, I guess I felt like we let you down.