Russian Air Force News & Discussion

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I see...


Yes Russia is a huge place to patrol however, doesn't Russia have ground based systems that can pretty much cover all their airspace?
No. Russian SAMs are massed around Moscow, St. Peters, and other major cities. There isn't even a continuous radar coverage over some parts of the Far East and Siberia, much less continuous SAM coverage. However when you take into account the Land Forces SAMs, and fighter CAPs, they can effectively provide air cover over the conflict zone. They just can't do it everywhere at once.

Because wouldn't modern day fighters/escorts track the Mig-31 miles before it gets in weapon range?
What exactly do you mean by modern? The MiG-31 primarily faces Chinese Flankers, and MiG-21 derivatives. They are not any more modern then any MiG-31BM. With those kinds of fighters, it can still effectively engage Chinese Tu-16 clones, should they attempt to strike targets deep inside Russia, and disengage before the escorts can close.

The Data-link on Mig-31 can to some extend work with land based Hq and radar installation, which only improve the mig-31 situational awareness, but i'm not sure how far Russia has come on the net-sentric battlespace capability today.
They exercise with AEW aircraft fairly frequently these days, but I don't know if there have been any major improvements in coordination with GBAD. The brand new Barnaul-T is supposed to address that exact problem, but so far it's only been delivered to the 18th Motor-Rifles, in Chechnya, for experimental exploitation. It allows integration of all brigade level IADS assets into a single system, and can communicate with VVS assets. I imagine once the Barnaul-T, and other automated C4I systems, are delivered in quantity we will see a marked improvement in that department. For the time being there is marginal improvement on that front.
 

Comrade69

Banned Member
What exactly do you mean by modern? The MiG-31 primarily faces Chinese Flankers, and MiG-21 derivatives. They are not any more modern then any MiG-31BM. With those kinds of fighters, it can still effectively engage Chinese Tu-16 clones, should they attempt to strike targets deep inside Russia, and disengage before the escorts can close.
I was not referring to China(Mig-31 would be advanced for their air force)
i was actually playing a scenario in my head of lets say....a B1 lancer
 

Haavarla

Active Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #464
I was not referring to China(Mig-31 would be advanced for their air force)
i was actually playing a scenario in my head of lets say....a B1 lancer
Impossible to see the outcome as there as just too many variables.

Quick question, anyone know or can predict the RCS of the SU-34?
Sorry, not a clue.
The air intakes stright line to the compressors fan sure don't help any.
And from side view those large Verticals Stabz are a give away too.
Anyway, when you fill it up with various A2G armament , it gets even worse.

On the bright side, those Satan Ducklings are not that exspensive if one take a look at the capability.
They can strike at anything Land/sea with stand-off missiles or get down dirty for some CAS if needed be. An their operational range are exellent.
They should be easy to maintain as VVS incorporate lots of Flankers. They share much of the same parts, IMO logistic supply chain, like engines, etc.

Here is a nice Su-34 angle of all the Hard & wet points with various pylons. I count 14(include wing tip!) of em:
 
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Twinblade

Member
Is there any chart for the capacity of individual hard points ? Also the wiki entry says that it can carry Kh-65S and Oniks. Has there been any conformation on that ?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I was not referring to China(Mig-31 would be advanced for their air force)
i was actually playing a scenario in my head of lets say....a B1 lancer
You'll have to elaborate. The B-1B has been stood down from the nuclear mission. I don't know at what range the MiG-31BM can engage a B-1B. I do know that the MiG-31 was likely designed with the B-52 as a target in mind.

So you suggest several B-1Bs trying to carry out a strike against targets in the Russian Far East? I doubt those B-1Bs would be used before a proper IADS rollback is performed. And the concentration of assets necessary for that would be mirrored by a Russian build-up, possibly with the release of tactical nuclear warheads to operational-tactical Missile Brigades, and Coastal AShM units. So the real deterrent to a US air strike, would be a potential retaliation strike against US facilities in Japan, and South Korea.

EDIT: Here's a few photos of the new Pantsyrs meant for the VVS. You can see them in green, with the new double-sided radar.

http://saidpvo.livejournal.com/22581.html
 

Sandhi Yudha

Well-Known Member
You'll have to elaborate. The B-1B has been stood down from the nuclear mission. I don't know at what range the MiG-31BM can engage a B-1B. I do know that the MiG-31 was likely designed with the B-52 as a target in mind.

So you suggest several B-1Bs trying to carry out a strike against targets in the Russian Far East? I doubt those B-1Bs would be used before a proper IADS rollback is performed. And the concentration of assets necessary for that would be mirrored by a Russian build-up, possibly with the release of tactical nuclear warheads to operational-tactical Missile Brigades, and Coastal AShM units. So the real deterrent to a US air strike, would be a potential retaliation strike against US facilities in Japan, and South Korea.

EDIT: Here's a few photos of the new Pantsyrs meant for the VVS. You can see them in green, with the new double-sided radar.

saidpvo -
Thanks for the link, interesting pictures. It looks like that besides the tracked platform, there are several wheeled platforms. Why has VVS ordered different kinds of 8x8 platforms? Are these platforms based on Ural-5323, KAMAZ-6560 or MZKT-7930 trucks?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thanks for the link, interesting pictures. It looks like that besides the tracked platform, there are several wheeled platforms. Why has VVS ordered different kinds of 8x8 platforms? Are these platforms based on Ural-5323, KAMAZ-6560 or MZKT-7930 trucks?
Not all of those are for the VVS. The VVS ones are the dark green. The tan are exports. In particular the tracked platform is an export variant. There aren't any variants on MZKT trucks, if you're talking about the bottom picture, then it's a MAN truck for the UAE. I also don't see any URAL trucks there, only Kamaz and MAN.

Given that the tracked variant is not only ready for production, but already in production, I really have to wonder why the PVO-SV isn't purchasing any. Their Shilkas aren't getting any younger... is it production capacity? Because that was definitely an issue when the MoD tried to order some back in 2010.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
That sounds logical. Except state trials usually don't require quite that many airframes. State trials also mean semi-finalized technical specs, and finished avionics and engines.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
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  • #473
But what about inducing new missiles for the T-50?
And the whole prossess of getting those W-bays operational with test launch.

And getting all these stuff actuall approved. Perhaps why they need eight T-50s..
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
But what about inducing new missiles for the T-50?
And the whole prossess of getting those W-bays operational with test launch.

And getting all these stuff actuall approved. Perhaps why they need eight T-50s..
That would all be factory tested before state trials. In fact if those components aren't ready, then the aircraft can't proceed to state trials.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Some fascinating statements from head of the VVS, Zelin. Apparently there are currently only 124 Su-24s left in the VVS. Given that this number would have to include recon and EW variants, I'm extremely surprised by this low number. On the other hand they are planning to replace all 124 on a 1 for 1 basis, which leads me to wonder whether this means they will develop a recon and EW variant of the Su-34 to replace appropriate Su-24Ms. This also doesn't make sense since the recon role everywhere in the world is being filled with UAVs and, in theory, Russia is planning to go down that same path. So does he then plan to replace the recon birds with regular Su-34s? Or does the number 124 only include basic Su-24M aircraft?

Finally this doesn't tell us anything about Su-24Ms in the AVMF. A number of them are in the Black Sea Fleet, and in the Pacific fleet. The BSF fleet considered using the Su-30SM as a replacement, will the PacF do the same?

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ

EDIT: It appears that Russia will provide the funding to complete development of the An-70 transport, and intends to purchase it in significant quantities as part of a plan to expand and improve on the strategic mobility of the Russian military.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=103667&cid=24

No surprises there, given that Ukraine doesn't have the money, and Russia has repeatedly stated they wanted the plane. However I'm interested to see how and where they localize production in Russia. After all there aren't that many aviation plants in Russia, and most of them aren't in great shape. Aviastar-SP will be busy with the Il-476, Aviakor can barely keep up with An-140-100 orders, NAPO is barely managing to put out necessary numbers of Su-34s, along with parts for Boeing, and SSJ. So who would this go to then? VASO? They're in a similar situation with the An-148, where they can't produce sufficient numbers to fulfill existing orders. KnAAPO will be at capacity if not over with the Su-35S, PAK-FA, SSJ, and continuing Su-30MK exports. That really only leaves IAPO which has slowed Su-30MK production, and picked up the Yak-130. However they have no experience of producing large transport aircraft, and likely don't have the facilities. There is also the upcoming Su-30SM purchases from the VVS and possibly AVMF. If those materialize, along with more Su-30MK exports, that would keep them occupied though 2020.

On the other hand Kievs Aviant is in bad shape too, and there is little desire in Russia to fund Ukranian industry with Russian defense orders. It will be interesting to see who picks up serial production if a major VVS order ever comes through.
 

Haavarla

Active Member
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  • #476
There exist many Su-24MR in the VVS, i read somewere that the Su-34 will cover this role as well.
There was some plans with a Su-34 beeing turned into a Su-34MR.
But this was rejected as too costly in both development and service cost, as there would be too many units for the VVS to operate.

Instead the Su-34 will operate huge MR-recon pods under the center hardpoints, that way it can defend itself too with additional weapons.
There are now three firms in Russia competing on developing those MR-pods now. And some of them are beeing tested now as well.

The Su-24MR do not carry any offensive weapons.

Source: Air International, 2012 Feb edition.
Piotr Butowski Article.

There are 18 Su-24M in the Black Sea. In an interrim phase they could get replaced by Su-24M2 units. In the long run, it might be the Su-30SM, we'll just have to wait and see.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
What about an EW variant? Pods also? I'd like to see a dedicated variant rather then just pods...
 

Haavarla

Active Member
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  • #478
I'm am 99% sure it will be EW-pods on those Su-34.
I'm not sure if those EW-pods have been completed yet..

Su-34 are far more efficient vs the Su-24MR, even with the Fullback only using EW-pods..
 

Klaus

New Member
I'm not sure whether the numbers in this article are correct. Before the first Su 34
arrived in Voronezh there were 150 Su 24M/M2 in service, together with 100 MR.
So I guess that currently there are 124 Su 24M/M2 left. It is also possible that the
author simply misunderstood something, as the VVS intends to acquire 124 Su 34.
To retire the upgraded Su 24M2 that early would also not make much sense. The
new UCAV which shall replace the latter won't enter service before 2020, so it would
be better to keep the 60 or so Su 24M2 for some more years.

As Haavarla said, there are no plans for a ECR-version of the Su 34, but this could
change if it should become necessary.

Ruaviation claims, that flight tests of the first Russian UCAV will commence at the end of this year. The aircraft has been developed by the Tranzas company and has
a weight of about 5 tons.
 
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