NZDF General discussion thread

ngatimozart

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The initial change in attitude with the US political and military establishment began in 2007 with Admiral Fallon's visit and things have steadily being arc'ed upwards since then. Prior to Fallons visit we had since 85 incrementally got to the point of just being 'friends' with the US - 'friends' spelt with a small 'f' and we have moved through to being "Friends" spelt with a capital to been 'Very Good Friends". Shortly New Zealanders will get the sense that we may well be "allies" with a small 'a' as 2012 will be a big year in taking the relationship forward. The principals certainly are of that mind as can be demonstrated by the various alphabet soup groups we have been allowed into as full members. May take awhile- if ever - to get back to being real Allies like we were pre 85 - however the shared interests and pragmatic approach to solving realities are whats essential.
I was at Warbirds over Wanaka in 2008 and there was a USAF New York ANG C130 there. I would think it was one that might have been going through off season maintenace at Air NZ in ChCh. Used to make me laugh; here we are having this big row with the US and there would be C5s, C141s, C130s and C17s transiting through Christchurch working with NZDF on the Antarctic Support program. When I was in RNZNVR at Pegasus we had great relations with USN VXE6 detachment at Harewood and the odd USN senior rate went to sea (incognito) on Kiwi occasionally. When we had the Navy's 50th celebration at Pegasus after the large parade in ChCh, there was a large attendance at Pegasus by USN personnel in full uniform & our boss was nervously watching for any polliticians and media who decided to visit. Don't know which made him the most nervous.

I was just remembering a comment made on this thread sometime last year about CINCPAC not keen on contact with NZ Forces and that we had very good relations with USCENTCOM. So I was hoping that with a new CINCPAC that our realationship with CINCPAC could reach the same level as the USCENTCOM one.
 
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Cadredave

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There are Australian press reports of a military coup in Papua New Guinea with forces loyal to ousted Prime Minister Michael Soares staging the coup.
Great just what the NZ Army (NZDF) needs at this time, streached to breaking point with Afghan, Timor, Solly, Christchurch, RENA just as well our Govt will look to see what big brother does before we act.

CD
 

ngatimozart

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Great just what the NZ Army (NZDF) needs at this time, streached to breaking point with Afghan, Timor, Solly, Christchurch, RENA just as well our Govt will look to see what big brother does before we act.

CD
Well it's not quite so clear cut. It could be a mutiny over pay and conditions and not relate to the Soares controversy. All they've apparenly done is put the Defence Minister Brigadier General Francis Agwi under house arrest and replaced him with a new commander, Colonel Yaura Safa, a former defence attach to Indonesia. Apparently some soldiers had planned a demonstration about pay and conditions which when I served in RNZAF & RNZNVR would have been classed as mutiny.

Yep NZDF don't need it but every cloud has a silver lining and it might give the polies a fright and they just might see the need for more realistic funding for Vote: Defence.
 

dave_kiwi

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Originally Posted by ngatimozart
I was just remembering a comment made on this thread sometime last year about CINCPAC not keen on contact with NZ Forces and that we had very good relations with USCENTCOM. So I was hoping that with a new CINCPAC that our realationship with CINCPAC could reach the same level as the USCENTCOM one
.

Heh - that may have been me. The RNZN is going to it's first RIMPAC post '85 this year, and this was announced late last year I think, prior to change in CINCPAC.

Small steps, but getting there - still peeved that the whole ANZUS debacle screwed relations with USA for most of my career with RNZAF. (Barring Triad '84).
 

ngatimozart

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.

Heh - that may have been me. The RNZN is going to it's first RIMPAC post '85 this year, and this was announced late last year I think, prior to change in CINCPAC.

Small steps, but getting there - still peeved that the whole ANZUS debacle screwed relations with USA for most of my career with RNZAF. (Barring Triad '84).
There was faults but if Shultz hadn't got so cranky about it and bullied NZ over it, it would have died down and things carried on quietly. But as soon as the US started the bullying well that gave a lot of mainstream support to the then NZG attitude that it didn't have. Now the anti-nuclear legislation is so deeply entrenched in the kiwi pysche that it would be a very brave or stupid politican who advocated getting rid of it as Don Brash found out in 2005. As muhc as had been said publicly about intel dealings and US not having any or very little with NZ I would hazard a guess that was for public consumption because the Echelon facility was and still is operating right through it, and you don't just cut those ties and capabilities. Politics is one thing - intel another totally different animal.

Remembering the discussion about the CINCPAC, IIRC it was mentioned that we have a very good relationship with US Central Command because we work with them in Afghanistan.
 

MrConservative

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.

Heh - that may have been me. The RNZN is going to it's first RIMPAC post '85 this year, and this was announced late last year I think, prior to change in CINCPAC.

Small steps, but getting there - still peeved that the whole ANZUS debacle screwed relations with USA for most of my career with RNZAF. (Barring Triad '84).
I think that the Centcom relationship seems closer due to senior staff being sent to Tampa since early 2002. There is not a senior officer billeted at Pearl. Maybe on a personal level a recent CINCPAC had a beef with the NZDF (lets face it he would have been a Junior Officer 25-30 years ago when things fell apart), but the DC beltway supers actually call the shots and wanted political warmth. If Gates and Condy wanted political warmth - they got political warmth.

Triad 84 was a ripper. Saw it from the top of Moehau - A-4's and F-15's all dogfighting in the Colville Channel.:D We may not have entertainment that good these days but if you hangout planespotting late march out of OH it should be pretty good.
 

ngatimozart

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I think that the Centcom relationship seems closer due to senior staff being sent to Tampa since early 2002. There is not a senior officer billeted at Pearl. Maybe on a personal level a recent CINCPAC had a beef with the NZDF (lets face it he would have been a Junior Officer 25-30 years ago when things fell apart), but the DC beltway supers actually call the shots and wanted political warmth. If Gates and Condy wanted political warmth - they got political warmth.

Triad 84 was a ripper. Saw it from the top of Moehau - A-4's and F-15's all dogfighting in the Colville Channel.:D We may not have entertainment that good these days but if you hangout planespotting late march out of OH it should be pretty good.
Yes and the RNZAF site about the airshow isn't very informative at all. In fact the RNZAF website isn't very good at all. Nothing on the NH90 apart from what is put up ages ago and no offical photos of NH 90 in NZ colours. I do have photos of NH 90 in RNZAF colours and first 2 arriving at OH but that is through another place I lurk in. They say same thing about RNZAF website too.
 

MrConservative

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Yes and the RNZAF site about the airshow isn't very informative at all. In fact the RNZAF website isn't very good at all. Nothing on the NH90 apart from what is put up ages ago and no offical photos of NH 90 in NZ colours. I do have photos of NH 90 in RNZAF colours and first 2 arriving at OH but that is through another place I lurk in. They say same thing about RNZAF website too.
Nah - not the 75th airshow mate. There is a reason why the website is lame - because all sorts of people will get far too excited.:)
 

dave_kiwi

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I think that the Centcom relationship seems closer due to senior staff being sent to Tampa since early 2002. There is not a senior officer billeted at Pearl. Maybe on a personal level a recent CINCPAC had a beef with the NZDF (lets face it he would have been a Junior Officer 25-30 years ago when things fell apart), but the DC beltway supers actually call the shots and wanted political warmth. If Gates and Condy wanted political warmth - they got political warmth.

Triad 84 was a ripper. Saw it from the top of Moehau - A-4's and F-15's all dogfighting in the Colville Channel.:D We may not have entertainment that good these days but if you hangout planespotting late march out of OH it should be pretty good.
Triad '84 - best bit was A4's extreme low flying, down the centre strip a Whenuapai. Had the "honuor" of being a "security" guard for the exercise -- mainly main gate, and F-15 flight line at night. Not bad for a youngster of 19.

As for 75th - well in Singapore so will have to live off posting of photos etc. Did take part in the 50th parade though at Wigram :)
 

MrConservative

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Triad '84 - best bit was A4's extreme low flying, down the centre strip a Whenuapai. Had the "honuor" of being a "security" guard for the exercise -- mainly main gate, and F-15 flight line at night. Not bad for a youngster of 18.

As for 75th - well in Singapore so will have to live off posting of photos etc. Did take part in the 50th parade though at Wigram :)
You were in the game Dave - up close and personal. Those sort of thrills never leave you - sort of - here I am at 18 guarding F-15's - whilst some of your mates are still in school getting chalk thrown at them.

I did not have my license yet but I remember driving out to Whenuapei with a mate in his Renault Dauphin and watching proceedings from the fence in Triad 81. But in 84 when I was a 1st year Uni student we went on an expedition to Moehau - camped - and watched in awe - washed down with warm Leopard Paw (Things you never forget). Have to admit it was semi-amusing seeing Blunties mixing it with F-15's and Mirages.
 

dave_kiwi

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You were in the game Dave - up close and personal. Those sort of thrills never leave you - sort of - here I am at 18 guarding F-15's - whilst some of your mates are still in school getting chalk thrown at them.

I did not have my license yet but I remember driving out to Whenuapei with a mate in his Renault Dauphin and watching proceedings from the fence in Triad 81. But in 84 when I was a 1st year Uni student we went on an expedition to Moehau - camped - and watched in awe - washed down with warm Leopard Paw (Things you never forget). Have to admit it was semi-amusing seeing Blunties mixing it with F-15's and Mirages.
Blunties .. hahah, the story I heard that a F-15 pilot went for a ride in one, and came back rather green .. may not be fast the old Bluntie, but low flying was really low.

The other amusing story was that the F-16 pilots were crying foul re the Mirages .. as the Mirage Pilots would turn off their radar and sneak up on the F-16s .... never thought a Mirage could sneak anywhere.

Just a damn shame that it was the last .. rest of my time in was rather quiet in comparison. Heh, nothing like looking back into the past - hard to believe it was nearly 30 years ago.
 

Lucasnz

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Briefing to the Incoming Minister

The Background Election Brief to the Minister is on the MOD website. The full brief isn't up yet. A summary of key facts

p.26: Gap Crossing System: Four sets of rapid bridge crossing systems are
being acquired through the UK Ministry of Defence. Acceptance of the last
system is currently scheduled to occur by September 2012.

p.34: Reserve Force - Three Infantry Battalions located throughout New Zealand.

From Key Points pdf.
- Major Projects Report completed in October 2011.
- Bill to amend Defence Act before house, including addressing the reserves.
- Approx $270 million identified in potential savings.
- Canterbury in refit: Sept 2012-March 2013
 

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
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There is a news release on the NZDF website dated Mo0nday 13/2/2012 stating that a NZDF is hosting a delegation of US defence personnel for five days this week. It is to familiarise them with NZDF capabilities and partly to focus on practical cooperation in the Pacific area. NZDF - US Defence personnel visit New Zealand Interestingly haven't seen anything on the media sites about it.
Yep visited 1 BDE Linton today alot of brass USMC, Air Force, & Army got a brief on 1 BDE capabilities etc silver service the lot.

CD
 

ngatimozart

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There is a US four star Admiral (Ferguson) who was in Canberra on Sunday and heading to Darwin yesterday doing a tiki tour of ADF sites prior to US forces rotating through Australia. He didn't by any chance come across the ditch did he? Was just wondering.
 

Lucasnz

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This was in the Otago Daily Times this morning.

Part-time soldiers from a new "high-readiness reserve" force could find themselves in the line of fire alongside Regular Forces as part of a mooted cost-cutting review.

The review says reserves are much cheaper than Regular Force members to maintain while not on deployment and suggests, for example, that if the New Zealand Defence Force was to replace 1000 Regular Force members with 1000 members of a new "high-readiness reserve", it could save $49 million in four years.

"... costs could be saved if, for example, more [reserve force] personnel were employed on operations - particularly (but not exclusively) at the lower end of the conflict spectrum".

Replacing some full-time soldiers, sailors and pilots with the new type of part-time reserve is one of the options the New Zealand Defence Force is considering as it works out how to save $400 million by 2015.

An external review of the reserve force, commissioned by previous minister of defence Dr Wayne Mapp through the Chief of Defence, recommends re-proportioning the Regular Force and reserve force (also known as the Territorial Force) as one way to make significant cost savings without losing operational military capability.

The report is one of several pieces of work, including a value-for-money review, which have identified options for reaching the savings target.

Members of the high-readiness reserve would spend 40 days a year in service and be deployed on a military operation with the Regular Force once every four years.

They would be integrated into Regular Force units.

Employers would be paid $5000 a year by the New Zealand Defence Force if they employed a member of the reserve.

The 2011 report from former chief of army Major-general (Rtd) Lou Gardiner, international security specialist Dr Beth Greener and merchant banker and New Zealand Army colonel Paul Bayley, contains 43 recommendations on how to reconfigure the reserve force.

The report recommends introducing a second and third tier of reserves - the active reserve, which would be in local communities, provide local civil emergency response and youth training etc; and the standby reserve, for former regular force or reserves members who have a service liability under the Defence Act, or who wish to stay linked with the Defence Force.

It also recommends merging the six reserve battalion groups into three support battalions, based in Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch, and then divesting unneeded infrastructure, including the Arch Hill facility in central Auckland, home of the 3rd Auckland and Northland Battalion.

There is no reference in the report to the Kensington Army Hall in Dunedin, but it does suggest maintaining the New Zealand Defence Force presence in communities could be done relatively cheaply by co-locating with other defence force users and hiring smaller buildings.

A briefing to Defence Minister Dr Jonathan Coleman said the merger would also represent cost-savings in the loss of up to 600 reserve positions.

The report writers said many of the changes recommended were already under way, but integrating reserve and Regular Force personnel and having part-timers adopting more significant roles would still present a significant challenge to existing structures and institutional culture.

The defence force had a "clear investment choice", to reduce the size of the regular force and invest the savings in high-readiness reserves.

The New Zealand Defence Force has already achieved savings through various means, including "civilianisation" and cutting military bands.

Asked if the reserves review had been considered and whether any of its proposals were being taken further, a New Zealand Defence Force spokeswoman said the request could take "a little while" to answer.
It has a factual mistake in that an inactive reserve (i.e. The RNZN Fleet reserve), already exists. I'm a little concerned about the comment regarding replacing 1,000 RF with TF in order to find more savings, given the RF is already in burnout mode.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
So is this report saying 40 days service a year makes for a (regularly) deployable per? if this was the case what is that saying about what the regular force does for the other 300 or so other days? Having a larger percentage of TF being deployed can only dilute skillsets if not properly managed, not saying TF are not good at what they do but we have majority regulars for a reason otherwise our entire defence force could be "high readiness reserve" and just get the call up come ops time, now that would save lots of money, I see another great government initiative in the making.

This cost cutting craze is getting alittle out of hand and will end up losing skills, capabilities and probably start costing more.
 
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