Royal New Zealand Air Force

ngatimozart

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Staff member
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The C-27J is the Aircraft the RAAF have indicated a preference to .The C-27J has better performance,and a taller cargo bay than C-295

Defence confirms cost & availability request for C295 too | Australian Aviation Magazine
Six of one and half a dozen of another. The C295 is cheaper to run and you don't have to turn the pallets side on to get them in like you have to with C27J so can carry more pallet(s). If you look at link I put up a week ago it says the same thing. All they've done is change the order of the words around and the tense. Like we're gonna be getting any real soon.
 
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Todjaeger

Potstirrer
Six of one and half a dozen of another. The C295 is cheaper to run and you don't have to turn the pallets side on to get them in like you have to with C27J so can carry more pallet(s). If you look at link I put up a week ago it says the same thing. All they've done is change the order of the words around and the tense. Like we're gonna be getting any real soon.
One other difference between the C-295 and C-27J is that the floor strength/weight rating for the C-27J is the same as that of a C-130J, while the C-295 does not have as high a rating. What this means potentially is that a pallet gets flown in on a C-130J and could then get transferred to a C-27J, or might need to be broken down and spread out onto a second pallet in order for the load to be flown in by a C-295.

It is not so much an issue of total load weight, but the max weight of individual pallets, the C-27J has the same limit as a C-130J while the C-295 has a lower one. Not sure how often that would be an issue, but does suggest to me that needing to change the facing of a pallet might be less of an issue. Especially if it is doing during normal loading/unloading of aircraft.

-Cheers
 

swerve

Super Moderator
There was a report in the Aussie media some weeks back about Airbus Military visiting Canberra to put the hard word on the Aussie pollies and ADF about the C295. they wanted another competition between the C295 and the C27J. The articles said that there was 10 aircraft / 6 months of work left on the C295 production line. .
Not the same thing as "there'll be no line after 6 months". Some weeks back, they didn't have a dozen aircraft wanted by Indonesia, with local assembly implying that they'd be looking to buy more & pushing it hard to others. And given the amount of OTS equipment, & some airframe commonality with CN-235, it'd be relatively cheap & easy to stop production & resume it later.

Our lot would be more interested in the CN235 rather than the C295.
Then no worries about production ending soon.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Ben Carson |Air Force Accused Of Cruelty To Grieving... | Stuff.co.nz

This is being played out in the press. It appears that Ben Carson was a Cpl having a ride in the Iroquois when it crashed on ANZAC Day 2010 killing 3 and very seriously injuring 1. Cpl Carson was amongst the dead. The family accuse the RNZAF of "Cruelty" with regard to the treatment they have had when compared to the other crew members. There are other issues that impact this case amongst them being a disagreement over who is Cpl Carsons legal next of kin; his girlfriend or his parents.

This is not good for the RNZAF and whilst I am not conversant with the details of the case, I would think that the RNZAF would have the brains to have treated all the victims and family of the victims equally regardless of rank, trade and who were legal next of kin and not. This most definitely doesn't have to be played out in the media.
 

RegR

Well-Known Member
Ben Carson |Air Force Accused Of Cruelty To Grieving... | Stuff.co.nz

This is being played out in the press. It appears that Ben Carson was a Cpl having a ride in the Iroquois when it crashed on ANZAC Day 2010 killing 3 and very seriously injuring 1. Cpl Carson was amongst the dead. The family accuse the RNZAF of "Cruelty" with regard to the treatment they have had when compared to the other crew members. There are other issues that impact this case amongst them being a disagreement over who is Cpl Carsons legal next of kin; his girlfriend or his parents.

This is not good for the RNZAF and whilst I am not conversant with the details of the case, I would think that the RNZAF would have the brains to have treated all the victims and family of the victims equally regardless of rank, trade and who were legal next of kin and not. This most definitely doesn't have to be played out in the media.
Ben Carson was a crewman with 3 Squadron same as Steve Creegan(the survivor), it does seem like the RNZAF have messed this one up should be one standard for all regardless of role, rank, crew etc. Sort it out Air Force.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Skyhawks

Retired Skyhawk fighters go to American buyer | Scoop News

Thought I might as well post a link to this Scoop article which closes the final chapter of the former RNZAF Air Combat Wing some 9 years and 11 months after the debacle started. After all this saga has featured frequently on DT over the years. It is great to hear that some of the old birds will possibly get a second chance.

A few months ago I read the excellent RNZAF A-4 history by ex 75er Don Simms. Get a copy for Christmas lads. Its a great read! :)
 

t68

Well-Known Member
Retired Skyhawk fighters go to American buyer | Scoop News

Thought I might as well post a link to this Scoop article which closes the final chapter of the former RNZAF Air Combat Wing some 9 years and 11 months after the debacle started. After all this saga has featured frequently on DT over the years. It is great to hear that some of the old birds will possibly get a second chance.

A few months ago I read the excellent RNZAF A-4 history by ex 75er Don Simms. Get a copy for Christmas lads. Its a great read! :)
By that article it still needs get buy the US State Department, hope they don’t screw you around this time.
 

dave_kiwi

New Member
Verified Defense Pro
Xmas Present for 3 Squadron

As reported by various publications, 2 x NH-90's are due to arrive at Ohakea next week. (Been delivered by AN-124).

NH90 Helicopters | Air Force To Receive New Choppers... | Stuff.co.nz

It's been along time coming - but it's starting to come together at last for the RNZAF. Add in the new A-109 Simulator as well :D, and it's certainly a good time to be on 3 Sqn.

A-109 Simulator:

http://tvnz.co.nz/breakfast-news/simulator-accident-prevention-video-4564514

The RNZAF's first full motion simulator.

Reading between the lines - will we see the same for the NH-90 ?
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
As reported by various publications, 2 x NH-90's are due to arrive at Ohakea next week. (Been delivered by AN-124).

NH90 Helicopters | Air Force To Receive New Choppers... | Stuff.co.nz

It's been along time coming - but it's starting to come together at last for the RNZAF. Add in the new A-109 Simulator as well :D, and it's certainly a good time to be on 3 Sqn.

A-109 Simulator:

Simulator - accident prevention | Breaking & Daily News, Sport & Weather | TV ONE, TV2 | TVNZ

The RNZAF's first full motion simulator.

Reading between the lines - will we see the same for the NH-90 ?
From reading the article 3 Sqn might have to wait a bit for their Xmas present. Also wonder if they are being delivered directly to Ohakea. Finally I wonder who put the press release out because nothing on NZDF site nor on Ministry of Defence site. the RNZAF page for the NH90 looks like it hasn't been updated since the initial purchase was made. I've seen official RNZAF on another forum but not a thing on their website. Pretty poor. 1/10 with 1 being a very poor effort.
 

t68

Well-Known Member
That’s been a long time coming considering that your order was approximately 6 or so months later than the Australian order (2006). The first 4 Euro built airframes arrived in 2008 with the rest of the fleet (13) so far being built in Aust and if they can get over the hurdles all 46 by 2014.
 

Cadredave

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
That’s been a long time coming considering that your order was approximately 6 or so months later than the Australian order (2006). The first 4 Euro built airframes arrived in 2008 with the rest of the fleet (13) so far being built in Aust and if they can get over the hurdles all 46 by 2014.
Our two NH90 have been sitting in France for the last two years awaiting certification from the proper aauthorities, all NH90 will be in service by 2013 i'll wait and see wheather it occurs.

CD
 
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RegR

Well-Known Member
From reading the article 3 Sqn might have to wait a bit for their Xmas present. Also wonder if they are being delivered directly to Ohakea. Finally I wonder who put the press release out because nothing on NZDF site nor on Ministry of Defence site. the RNZAF page for the NH90 looks like it hasn't been updated since the initial purchase was made. I've seen official RNZAF on another forum but not a thing on their website. Pretty poor. 1/10 with 1 being a very poor effort.
Yes they are going straight to Ohakea, were due late Oct but I suppose after so many delays whats another one. I beleive the A109 sim is the simulator and it will just be conversion onto NH90, once you get the basics down in a helicopter cheaper to just convert to another type(unless you can afford to fork out for another simulator) or no doubt Aus will get a NH90 sim so could work out a A109/NH90 usage deal.
Good to finally see them gaining traction, now how long till they're at some level of operational use, months/years/???? hope RNZAF has the bug iron on and the troubleshooting book open.
 

wildcolonialboy

New Member
And this government only has itself to blame. Australia in the past have purchased equipment with a New Zealand option included. In every case this government has refused these options, I suspect to the point Australia doesn't bother anymore.
That's certainly interesting to know. It seems to me that the Kiwis do seem to think that regional security is no concern of theirs, that they can leave the hard capabilities (submarines, fighter aircraft, AWACs, destroyers etc) to us. Considering how dependent New Zealand is on trade, it's astonishing that the maintenance of a credible navy, at the very least, isn't considered a priority.

Alas, they know Australia can't afford not to defend both nations (for reasons of pragmatism as well as honour)
 

wildcolonialboy

New Member
By that article it still needs get buy the US State Department, hope they don’t screw you around this time.
I'd heard some rumours that the conservatives might bring back a modest force of fighter aircraft, some rented F-16s or something like that? Or is that just recycling what they'd proposed 15 years ago?
 

ngatimozart

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Staff member
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I'd heard some rumours that the conservatives might bring back a modest force of fighter aircraft, some rented F-16s or something like that? Or is that just recycling what they'd proposed 15 years ago?
Thats not going to happen because for one NZ doesn't have the cash to afford to buy and sustain air combat wing. If you are talking about the conservative political party, they are very new on the block and a rich mans toy. All it is is yap and for the mods that is end of politics. For your info Kiwis are very aware of regional security but being aware and having the money to do something about it is two different stories.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
I'd heard some rumours that the conservatives might bring back a modest force of fighter aircraft, some rented F-16s or something like that? Or is that just recycling what they'd proposed 15 years ago?
Are you meaning Colin Craigs tiny Conservative Party which failed miserably in the last election to get more than the 5% threshhold under MMP?

The current centre-right John Key government has no plans to re-instate an air combat capability. There are also absolutely no rumours of any credibility floating around on the matter.
 

MrConservative

Super Moderator
Staff member
Thats not going to happen because for one NZ doesn't have the cash to afford to buy and sustain air combat wing.
Yep - Christchurch has killed it in the short-medium term. NZ does not want to go to the GFC wall and be another Greece or Ireland bailout economy.

Affordability in the longer term? I'd argue that it is more than capable but in terms of national spending priorities other budget items rate higher in the vote buying of the general public. Comparatively New Zealand is incredibly generous in regards of flagship government social spending. Some counties are not so generous nor have GDP debt ratio's under control like we do. [/QUOTE]
 

Sea Toby

New Member
Yep - Christchurch has killed it in the short-medium term. NZ does not want to go to the GFC wall and be another Greece or Ireland bailout economy.

Affordability in the longer term? I'd argue that it is more than capable but in terms of national spending priorities other budget items rate higher in the vote buying of the general public. Comparatively New Zealand is incredibly generous in regards of flagship government social spending. Some counties are not so generous nor have GDP debt ratio's under control like we do.
[/QUOTE]

About the best New Zealand can do is reinstate the training jets alike the Philippines with most likely South Korean T-50s. But it doesn't appear New Zealand will. The issue is water over the bridge now, as they killed their air combat force and the jet trainers ten years ago. Once a capability is lost, its difficult to reconstitute it. Most likely the fighter pilots have moved on, and it would be wise others did too.

Its more likely if New Zealand faced an air attack, they would spend their precious cash for SAMs instead. On the other hand if insurgents became a problem, New Zealand might buy some Embraer prop attack planes. But there is no sign of any insurgents within New Zealand at the moment.

New Zealand's navy does not have any submarines, their army doesn't have any tanks, and their air force doesn''t have any fighter jets. I don't see any changes forthcoming any time soon.
 

Vanguard

New Member
The only new things we've really seen the New Zealand military get over recent years is some new fancy SAR kit which lead to the military trying to by equipment by focusing on its rescue potentials in times of disaster but that obviously does not include submarines, tanks and fighters. The more likely stuff they will try and use that reasoning for Air Force wise is a potential P-3 replacement that could be needed within the next decade (depending on upgrades), the regional transports and maybe a couple more A109s which I heard they might be getting.

Regionally this is the sort of kit they would need as well as one of the big issues affecting many countries such as Tuvalu is the drinking water shortage and disasters caused by rising sea levels and recent weather patterns (la nina) such as Tsunamis, floods etc.
 

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The only new things we've really seen the New Zealand military get over recent years is some new fancy SAR kit which lead to the military trying to by equipment by focusing on its rescue potentials in times of disaster but that obviously does not include submarines, tanks and fighters. The more likely stuff they will try and use that reasoning for Air Force wise is a potential P-3 replacement that could be needed within the next decade (depending on upgrades), the regional transports and maybe a couple more A109s which I heard they might be getting.

Regionally this is the sort of kit they would need as well as one of the big issues affecting many countries such as Tuvalu is the drinking water shortage and disasters caused by rising sea levels and recent weather patterns (la nina) such as Tsunamis, floods etc.
Like I've already said a lot of it comes down to cost and capability. NZ doesn't have the capability to run a sub force. Look at issues Australia is having. As far as tanks or MBTs go, we have long gone past the point where we can sustain such a force. I've already covered the ACF issue. This has been done to death.

Let me put some things into perspective for you. NZ has the same population as Sydney. We have a rather low population density with high deprivation and poverty amongst the population. Some numbers. Some 20% of kiwi kids don't get enough to eat every day. We are not blessed with the large mineral resources that you in Australia have. Depending upon which sets of data you use somewhere between 30% and 40% of the population live either on the poverty line or below it. In Maori and Pacific Island populations the figures are far higher. wages in NZ are 25% lower than in Australia but the basics like food are similar. If you look at the official figures for the median wage or the average wage it takes into account the income of professionals such as lawyers, judges, politicians etc. Not just blue collar workers, so it is artificially high and does not reflect what in excess of 50% of the work force actually earn. Kiwis struggle to survive. As a general rule unlike Australia we cannot afford to have a life style. That explains why a lot of kiwis cross the ditch.

The old days of the 1950s and 1960s when we could afford to have MBTs, a cruiser plus 4 - 6 frigates, a bomber squadron and a fighter squadron are long gone. In 1984 this country was broke with the highest debt level in the western world. Now we have to live with what we can and can't afford and whilst there are some of us who would like to have more capability it aint gonna happen because when you have a lot of hungry kids what is more important?

So lets be a little realistic and then you have a look at what the NZDF actually do with what they have.
 
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