StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Thats insane, why arent they using the H&W dock again?
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
Politics - Gordon Brown, jobs for Scotland, Labour votes.Thats insane, why arent they using the H&W dock again?
What, the biggest graving dock in Europe? That's crazy talk - they've only built something like 11 aircraft carriers in their entire history, next you'll be saying they already have large cranes on site. Madness I tell you...Thats insane, why arent they using the H&W dock again?
Ian
Samson and Goliath are city landmarks.
H&W is not owned by BAE, so that and Brown's intervention sealed the deal I suspect. Plus you don't have to drag the sub-blocks across the Irish Sea at Rosyth.
If the Scot's vote for independence then H&W would be the logical choice to have the QE's refitted/maintained in. The dry docks big enough and S&G are the same size as Rosyth's new crane. Scotland's loss = Belfast's gain.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Yep, craziness.
How much did the upgrade to Rosyth cost? Plus any possible dredging of the channel that may be required.....
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
I doubt the 40km across the narrowest point (that just happens to be directly off belfast) would have been a major issue.
Plus, the blocks build at BAe's other shipyards would have to be dragged the much longer distance right around scotland to get to Rosyth wouldn't they wouldn't they? The clyde exits on the west coast and Rosyth is on the east coast......
Not sure If H&W is designated a 'Royal Dockyard' anymore? Appears to be mainly orientated towards the offshore industry. They may have lost over time the ability to build Naval vessels to a level comparable with BAE (based on T45/Astute engineering/build experience). BAE invested a lot of money in cutting edge tech/engineering and design personnel off the back of those two contracts.
If you go on YouTube there's an entire show dedicated to buiding the Astute Class that reflects BAE's investment in specialised personnel.
Royal Dockyard designation carries with it added rules relating to security. You could still be legally 'hung, drawn and quartered' for acts of treason in a Royal Dockyard I understand until 1999. The last time someone suffered that fate was at the beginning of the Boer War.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
I'm sure H&W would have been happy to be reaccredited in that case. Remember, in that dockyard they would have been assembling the blocks, not necessarily producing them (though I have no doubts they could).
So the important skills would have to be being able to do jigsaw puzzles right?
Edit: As far as I can tell H&W was never a Royal Dockyard.
So the important skills would have to be being able to do jigsaw puzzles right?
Edit: As far as I can tell H&W was never a Royal Dockyard.
True, but they might have already been committed to other commercial work. BAE on the otherhand relies almost entirely on Naval shipbuilding, if they owned the H&W yard I suspect it would of been another matter.
As I mentioned before if the Jock's vote for separation H&W would be the only practical alternative for servicing the QE's down the line and it would be a massive boost for Belfast - Unionists would love it. Refits could go for open tender later if it's a basic hull scrub and paint job, H&W's drydock should give your more room under the keel.
The city's namesake built at H&W still sits proudly on the Thames to this day.
Hanged, but not drawn & quartered. That fell out of use 300 years ago (the last complete case I've heard of was about 1680).
Hanging, drawing & quartering meant partially hanging (no long drop - just half-strangled), cutting down while still alive, disembowelling ('drawing' out the guts), often preceded by castration, then cutting the body up. By the early 18th century it was normal to hang 'em properly & only do the bloody bits once they were dead.
It was officially watered down to reflect the by then long-established practice about 200 years ago (hang normally, then decapitate), & that last remnant of it was officially abolished (long after even the watered-down version had ceased to be used) in 1870.
Nobody was hanged, drawn & quartered at the start of the Boer War. It was completely & utterly illegal by then. The hangman & everyone else concerned would have risked being hanged themselves for doing it.
Has this not got something to do with the fact that most of the shipyard has been sold off & turned into land for domestic housing ?Thats insane, why arent they using the H&W dock again?
The "security-issue" is another factor, which although quiet in comparisson to the 70's to 90's, is still relevant.
IIRC, The last reasonable military contract that was done there was the AOR's in the late 80's / early 90's, which didn't exactly cover H&W in glory......
The other thing about the carrier, moving politics slightly to the side, is that if you look at UK as a whole, is that we have a limited amount of expertise to do certain tasks & that is only being maintained by giving certain jobs to certain yards.
Move that work to somewhere else & it pretty much kills the ability (& the surrounding community to boot), so it's not as cut & dried as it might appear....
SA
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
As of 2007 when the last google earth imagery was taken of the site, it still looked to be quite large even if it isnt as big as it once was.
Didn't the IRA try to blow up one of the Fort class AOR's being built there?
Last semi-military ship construction by H&W would have been a pair of Point class RO-RO's in 2002-2003?
Didn't the IRA try to blow up one of the Fort class AOR's being built there?
Last semi-military ship construction by H&W would have been a pair of Point class RO-RO's in 2002-2003?
Yup, they sure did !
Know one or two guys who were working on it at the time. Bomb threats & bombs going off, locals were cleared of the area quite quickly, the guys I know were classed as sub-contractors & were threatened with the sack, if they left !!!
Correct again !
You been googling stuff again ??
LoL
SA
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
I did, but only to check my facts since I remember reading about it somewhere before (Navy Matters?).
What I did find weird, and what I couldn't find a reference for, and what I'm not sure even makes sense. The Wikipedia article for the Point class claims they can carry and operate 3-4 Helicopters. It says the info is from Janes....but my university doesnt seem to have a subscription....
What I did find weird, and what I couldn't find a reference for, and what I'm not sure even makes sense. The Wikipedia article for the Point class claims they can carry and operate 3-4 Helicopters. It says the info is from Janes....but my university doesnt seem to have a subscription....
kev 99
Member
It would make sense if it was carrying them as cargo, maybe a misunderstanding? Unless we're talking about turning them into some sort of make shift helicopter carriers with containerised avaition facilities?
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
What it says:
As far as I can see they wouldn't be enough room aft of the superstructure and I assume they'd need a platform built forward or it might be a bit scary considering its blocked in both fore and aft. Maybe it means carrying them, but I took that to mean operate since you don't need aviation facilities to carry helicopters as deck cargo or otherwise.Wikipedia said:
kev 99
Member
Yeah I know I read it before posting.
Have a look at these pictures:
What I'm thinking is maybe the thought is that the Ro-Ro deck fore of the superstructure could just be used as a make-shift landing platform with some containerised aviation equipment aranged around, sort of similar to the cold war style tanker conversions that were mooted a couple of decades ago.
t68
Well-Known Member
RFA Mounts Bay (L3008) appears to be going in for some work, didn’t Mounts Bay go into refit 12 or so months ago to redesign the funnels or something and with what appears to be HMAS Choules in the background looks like a fresh paint job so assume it is.
http://www.nmmc.co.uk/index.php?/justvisiting/webcams/falmouth_harbour_from_the_tower_out_to_sea
http://www.nmmc.co.uk/index.php?/justvisiting/webcams/falmouth_harbour_from_the_tower_out_to_sea
FluffyThoughts
Member
Sorry, but the Points are pretty - erm - Pointless. They are a PFI but they will not transfer what is left of our light-infantry. If the focus was Cunard/Carribean then I'd expect the QM and QE will be cruising.... :smash
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
They might not be able to transport infantry (in their current layout), however they can carry the ammunition, food, vehicles and other equipment those troops will need.
They also have strengthened decks for carrying armoured vehicles.