Marine Nationale (French Navy)

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vivtho

New Member
Seaforth said:
Seriously though, how valuable is C2? I saw a C2 once at Sydney airport, one day before the US carrier arrived. A helicopter could have sufficed...
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Quick Answer:
Range and speed ... the C-2 has over twice the range and speed of the longest ranged Navy helo.
You can get by with helos if you stick (comparatively) close to land but not otherwise.
 
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riksavage

Banned Member
vivtho said:
Quick Answer:
Range and speed ... the C-2 has over twice the range and speed of the longest ranged Navy helo.
You can get by with helos if you stick (comparatively) close to land but not otherwise.
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Seriously the amount of time UK & French carriers will be East of Suez or sailing in the South/North Atlantic far from friendly ports will be minimal, so why invest in C2 when you consider other priorities. For the UK a Chinook + refueling probe might suffice for most situations (mail, shore visits, unforeseen crew rotation, medical evac).

Not being fluent in French, can someone provide an update on PA2 as described in the fact book? The picture looks old, I thought the design had reverted to a single bridge/aviation control tower configuration, not two units as per QE, each hosting an exhaust and sitting over two separated power generation units (battle damage mitigation)?
 
StevoJH

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Seaforth said:
Seriously though, how valuable is C2? I saw a C2 once at Sydney airport, one day before the US carrier arrived. A helicopter could have sufficed...
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An old post....but.

How did the USN Manage to get a landing spot at Sydney Airport?
 
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Seaforth

New Member
StevoJH said:
An old post....but.

How did the USN Manage to get a landing spot at Sydney Airport?
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It was parked near where the RAAF VIP 737 used to park - when collecting or dropping off the PM I guess. Not too far from the executive jet centre (but not too close either).

If private jets and charters can fly in and out of Sydney airport, which they do every day, then scheduling a once off Greyhound delivery would be no problem.
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #388
riksavage said:
Not being fluent in French, can someone provide an update on PA2 as described in the fact book? The picture looks old, I thought the design had reverted to a single bridge/aviation control tower configuration, not two units as per QE, each hosting an exhaust and sitting over two separated power generation units (battle damage mitigation)?
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Here's a pic of the current PA2 design taken during Euronaval 2010.
Imageshack - pa21.jpg

Whoever wins the French presidential election next year, will decide the fate of the PA2 project. Sarkozy has delayed the decision on the PA2; he doesn't want the socialists to use it against in the 2012 election.
 
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riksavage

Banned Member
Spacearrow99 said:
Here's a pic of the current PA2 design taken during Euronaval 2010.
Imageshack - pa21.jpg

Whoever wins the French presidential election next year, will decide the fate of the PA2 project. Sarkozy has delayed the decision on the PA2; he doesn't want the socialists to use it against in the 2012 election.
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The latest French budget update makes zero reference to the PA2 decision, Barracuda funds confirmed though.

CdG will have to undergo a years refit in 2015, which will mean there is no genuine European back-up strike carrier to fill her boots (other than STOVL).
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #390
riksavage said:
The latest French budget update makes zero reference to the PA2 decision, Barracuda funds confirmed though.

CdG will have to undergo a years refit in 2015, which will mean there is no genuine European back-up strike carrier to fill her boots (other than STOVL).
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The MN general staff delayed the construction of a second CDG for years. Now there's no room in the defence budget for the PA2. Yes, France can afford the PA2, but Sarkozy would've to increase procurement by large amount during the next several years. France is in recession and socialists would use it against him in the elections. If Sarkozy wins the election, it will probably get built, constuction would probably begin after 2017. But if the socilaists win the PA2 project is basically dead.
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
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  • #392
youpii said:
I will also depends if the shipyards need jobs. That's why MN will not buy the unused British carrier.
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Yes, it slso depend if the shipyards need work. The French procurement budget full until until atleast 2020.

Armée de l'Air
50 A400M
Rafale
14 A330 MRTT

Armée de Terre
VAB replacement at least 4000 vehicles ( atleast a € 3 to 5 billion euro program) sometime after 2017

The MN main priority is the renewal of the rest of fleet. They could probably delay the replacement of the Lafayettes and Floreals during the middle 2020s time period. Most of MN procurement other programs should've been almost completed. The French could build two carriers during 2017 to 2027 timeframe.
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
14 A330 MRTT is what's wanted, but I think they're unikely to be bought, at least in the short term. The French government & AdlA have been talking about AAR as a prime opportunity for saving money by co-operating with the UK, so I wouldn't be surprised if France buys a smaller number (at least to start with) & we make some kind of pooling arrangement.

This would suit the UK very well, as current planning assumes that with cuts in combat aircraft, the 14 A330 we're buying will give us surplus capacity which we can lease out much of the time. A deal with France would work much better than trying to get civilian transport charters & the like.

There! I've saved you a few billion. ;)
 
R

riksavage

Banned Member
swerve said:
14 A330 MRTT is what's wanted, but I think they're unikely to be bought, at least in the short term. The French government & AdlA have been talking about AAR as a prime opportunity for saving money by co-operating with the UK, so I wouldn't be surprised if France buys a smaller number (at least to start with) & we make some kind of pooling arrangement.

This would suit the UK very well, as current planning assumes that with cuts in combat aircraft, the 14 A330 we're buying will give us surplus capacity which we can lease out much of the time. A deal with France would work much better than trying to get civilian transport charters & the like.

There! I've saved you a few billion. ;)
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The RAF has signed-up to keep 7 airframes committed 100%, the other 7 on demand with spare capacity leased to other users. France could sign-up to share 7 and buy another 7. The increased load capacity, range and endurance means less is more. With both countires cutting back, 21 should be enough to cover both nations requirements.
 
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youpii

New Member
riksavage said:
The RAF has signed-up to keep 7 airframes committed 100%, the other 7 on demand with spare capacity leased to other users. France could sign-up to share 7 and buy another 7. The increased load capacity, range and endurance means less is more. With both countires cutting back, 21 should be enough to cover both nations requirements.
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There is a large disagreement about the hourly rate
Ravitailleurs en vol : les Britanniques trop gourmands
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
Asking for a lower price than the cost per hour of the current KC-135FR is unrealistic.

Firstly, the A330 should be more effective per hour. Secondly, the cost should reflect the capital costs saved by the AdlA not having to buy & operate those A330s. That's the real comparison, not the current marginal hourly operating cost of aircraft which will soon have to be retired.

Is it cheaper or more expensive to pay £1 per kilometre for taxis, or spend £10000 on a car that depreciates to zero value in ten years, £0.2 in petrol per km, parking charges, £1000 per year in maintenance, tax, etc? The answer is - it depends on how many miles you travel. Same with the tankers. You need to factor in all costs & your usage rates.
 
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Spacearrow99

Member
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  • #397
I don't know what Sarkozy is thinking? The Greeks just have to take delivery of the 4 FREMM. The Germans will offer them a bettter deal, and they can take their time in the hammering out a deal with Greece. The Sarkozy MoD is stupid they just should've stuck with 17 FREMM plan. Well, If the Greeks don't pay after five years, the MN will have 4 more FREMM/FREDA. I guess the 4 Greek FREMM would replace the Lafayettes. The Floreals could be replaces by Gowind OPVs. This scenario would pave the way for PA2 carrier program during the 2020s. The only other major procurement program starting up, would be the SSBN replacement, in late 2020 and early 2030s.


Germans Question Contract: France to Sell Frigates to Greece in Controversial Deal - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
 
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K

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Can someone update me on the current status of BATSIMAR? In particular what type of ship CNM might be pitching in?
 
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