Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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AegisFC

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It might have been three ship sets and a simulator setup?
3 "sets" with an option for a 4th at the same price for the same computer/radar baseline.

I don't think the Kidds would have lasted until 2020. They would have been fine until 2010 (maybe) by which time US yards could have supplied at least four DDG 51-IIs to the RAN. As to upgrading the Kidds they had the combat system we wanted. The only thing they would have needed is VLS to replace the GMLS to save on crew and maintenance. A 64 cell strike length forward and a 16 cell SDSS length aft (can't fit a full size VLS aft on a spru can) would enabled 64 ESSM and 64 SM2 which is more than enough.
With a good SLEPing I think they could have though 2015 probably would of been more realistic. I've read a couple sources that talk about how the Tico's and Kidds were built stronger than the base Sprucan hull in several aspects. Besides Spruances were starved of funding and then decommed for political reasons rather than their hulls being knackered.

If the articles that have been around the internet have any truth, will LCS-2 be seaworthy next year let alone in 10 or 20 years? :devil

And even LCS-1, photo's i saw on another forum showed what looked like surface rust on the forward deck both near the gun and at the bow, and the whole side of the ship was black from particulate matter from the exhaust.
As much as I don't like them LCS 1&2 are best viewed as prototypes, they will break, they will have their manning adjusted, concepts will be worked out and equipment and hull deficiencies will be addressed in later examples. The first two will probably have very limited service lives but who knows maybe LCS-3 and above might be half way decent ships.

If you look at HMAS Perths new upgrade, its dome is black not storm grey. some genius decided building above the funnels, and what comes out of said funnels is not exactly clear smoke. The only people set to win out of these design failures are the contractors who have to paint them every month, same with LCS. More paint more money for some contract...its all part of someones plan:rolleyes:
That is one of the things I didn't like about the F-100, the rear SPY arrays were above the forward stack, and got filthy very quickly. That means the arrays had to be cleaned by the crew much more often than on the Baby-Burke and the arrays would have to be resurfaced much more often as well. Spain partially rectified this problem by building up the stack so it is higher but that was only a partial solution since every F-100 picture I've seen with the modification still has nasty looking rear array faces.
 
It would be interesting to understand the effects of carbon build up and attenuationn on the array face. If it gets hairy you aren't exactly going to be able to turn the SPY face off, clean it and turn it back on.
 

alexsa

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Makes 'sense'. If you want to detect a very small radar target amongst sea waves you use a rapid scanning ASW radar like all those mounted on maritime patrol aircraft. Of course the trial would have to use something completely different without the werewithall to do the job.
I don't disagree
 

StevoJH

The Bunker Group
Aluminium is resistant to corrosion thanks to passivation in which initial corrosion forms a hard, non reactive layer resistant to further corrosion. However aluminium alloy used to build ships does not have this natural trait. But they are usually coated like alcade and anodising.
I was wondering about that, since I remember finding out about the outer layer of Aluminium back when we had a 'tinny' for fishing.
 

alexsa

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Still reading that article, but I thought Aluminium was lighter but more expensive then steel.
The london metals exchange has the price of aluminium alloy billet ranging from 2300 to 2460 USD per tonne over the last six months (Cash buyers could ger it for 2470 USD per tone on 04/07/2011). Steel billets by comparision is 510 to 600 USD per tonne for the same period (585USD a tonne for cash buyers). The issue here is this is an indicative measure and the price really relates to what type of alloy or steel you are using and how it is rolled...... however the price for carbon steel plate in Feb 2011 was 890USD per tonne but had dropped to 819USD per tonne in April 2011 for Asian markets.

At the other end of the scale stainless steel plate is 4682 USD per tonne (due to increasing nickle costs) but MEPS shows the median price for all grades of steel as $881 USD per tonne in June 2011. The last quote I could get on HT steel plate (HY80) was 2800 USD per tonne.

MEPS (INTERNATIONAL) LTD., Independent Steel Industry Analysts, Steel Prices, Steel Publications, Steel News, Steel Data, Steel Consultancy, Steel

Bascially mild steel cost less, in plate form, than the median price for alluminium alloy billets. HT and SS steel will be more expsnsive but I doubt most grades would over take the price of aluminium alloy used in shipbard construction as even HY80, in processed form, costs only marginally more than the billet price for aluminium alloy. In saying this there is no equivilent to MEPs for alloy and I did not bother regstering with a supplier to get cost.
 

FrostyBoz

New Member
Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare size of sheets rather that weight. As a tone of aluminum would go further than a tone of steel. The price to build a whole ship from steel may be very close to aluminum. As you wouldn't need as many tones of the materiel?
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yes but aluminium is weaker than steel so you need more of it so the difference won't be as much as you might think. Theres also a lot more in a cost in building a ship than the raw material cost. Then the actual operational costs.

I suppose this is what the USN is tryign to find out, about the future of constructing ships.
 

alexsa

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Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare size of sheets rather that weight. As a tone of aluminum would go further than a tone of steel. The price to build a whole ship from steel may be very close to aluminum. As you wouldn't need as many tones of the materiel?
With HT steel the differntial in weight is less but the constructions cost for aluminium compared to steel tend to be on the high side. there may be a lot less materail in these ships given the HSC code build (i.e reduced scantlings) but the are not cheap to build. for example a 112m fast ferry (not a ware ship so none of the systems) comes in at 100m AUD, thats more than 100m USD for a high speed bus. You can build an awful lot of container ship with a 25knots sustained speed for 100m.

In short the aluminium is cheaper steel case appears spurious.
 

Kirkzzy

New Member
If you look at HMAS Perths new upgrade, its dome is black not storm grey. some genius decided building above the funnels, and what comes out of said funnels is not exactly clear smoke. The only people set to win out of these design failures are the contractors who have to paint them every month, same with LCS. More paint more money for some contract...its all part of someones plan:rolleyes:
About Perth.. check out the new photo on the defence website. Its under the latest images section.

Hope its not much of a problem.
 

weegee

Active Member
About Perth.. check out the new photo on the defence website. Its under the latest images section.

Hope its not much of a problem.
I think it just looks as though our junior sailors will be getting a lot of extra brush work to do that is all.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Cool, I wonder how much it would cost to militarise a 165,000t container ship.

Proberly a bit of an overkill for coastal duties.
 

weegee

Active Member
Has anyone got any news about the HMAS Canberra since her launching? at what point will she actually make her journey out here or has she already left?
Also how is her sister going when will she be launched? I don't know if it is just because they are out of sight and out of mind but Navantia seems like they are pumping these ships out real quick.
 

Ozymandias

Banned Member
Has anyone got any news about the HMAS Canberra since her launching? at what point will she actually make her journey out here or has she already left?
Also how is her sister going when will she be launched? I don't know if it is just because they are out of sight and out of mind but Navantia seems like they are pumping these ships out real quick.
Canberra is still being outfitted in Spain. It won't get to Australia for another year at least. Adelaide won't be launched until 2013.
 

Milne Bay

Active Member
Canberra is still being outfitted in Spain. It won't get to Australia for another year at least. Adelaide won't be launched until 2013.
What is the extent of the finishing that will take place here in Australia on the HMAS Canberra and Adelaide?
Out of interest what will they name the third LHD?
HMAS Darwin, Newcastle?
 

Ozymandias

Banned Member
What is the extent of the finishing that will take place here in Australia on the HMAS Canberra and Adelaide?
Out of interest what will they name the third LHD?
HMAS Darwin, Newcastle?
Everything above the flight deck goes on in Australia.

No idea about a third LHD name. Even if it is in the DCP update, plucking another $1.5B out of the air seems a bit fantastic to me. Someone else will have to suffer (Army, RAAF, Health, Education) in order to make the bottom line add up.
 
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