UAV systems needed for African Anti Poaching efforts

pmdt83

New Member
Hi I am a Conservationist fighting a loosing battle against the fight against Rhino poaching in Southern Africa.
I would like to use military UAV systems to catch these criminals in the act.
To get the funding to start up I need to set up a proposal and I need help with costs of different systems.
Can someone please help me with contacts for different manufacturers etc.

Thanks
 

welsh1

New Member
i think you would be looking for a miniature UAV.

most will give about 1 hour of flight time, and are easily transported.

i think anything more would be too costly to buy and maintain.
 

My2Cents

Active Member
You might also look into aerostats and/or sensor towers like they are using in Afghanistan to cover large areas. Not as mobile or sexy as UAV's, but they can be cheaper and provide 24 hour coverage.

Also, you will need low level or thermal sensors for your UAV to catch poachers at night.
 

vivtho

New Member
Hi I am a Conservationist fighting a loosing battle against the fight against Rhino poaching in Southern Africa.
I would like to use military UAV systems to catch these criminals in the act.
To get the funding to start up I need to set up a proposal and I need help with costs of different systems.
Can someone please help me with contacts for different manufacturers etc.

Thanks
First I'd just like to say that this is a very innovative idea that you have.

Before you start looking around for quotations from UAV manufacturers I'd recommend that you identify your requirements. Are you looking for a way to detect poachers (I'm assuming that you would actually be looking for their vehicles) over a wide area (an entire park) or are you looking to localize suspected poachers within a smaller area (10-25sq km)? For the latter there are several small-size UAVs which can be hand launched. However, like welsh1 mentioned they do not have much endurance.

From the limited description you've provided it seems to me that you are looking for a medium-sized UAV which can patrol an entire park over a several hour duration. There are several military-spec UAVs which will meet this requirement. However, they are built to military standards and are likely to be very expensive. Remember, you will not only have to buy the UAV but also their custom ground terminals.

I suggest two avenues that you could try before looking for an off-the shelf idea.
1) Ultralight aircraft with lightweight sensors. An ultralight would be much cheaper than most UAV currently available and can almost match their endurance at a slightly higher operating cost. They would also allow your organization to get used to the mission and help develop processes and fine tune your exact requirements.
2) If you have good engineering colleges nearby, why not ask them to collaborate with you on designing and building a low-cost UAV tailored to your needs. You could crowd-source it as well getting people across the world to help in the design and maybe even raise funds. I am not suggesting that such a UAV will match the others on the market, but from what I can see your needs are actually pretty basic and can be easily satisfied using such a method.

One final point ... you should also check your local aviation laws whether such a UAV is legal for use by civilians.

Edit: A quick Google search gave me http://diydrones.com/
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
First I'd just like to say that this is a very innovative idea that you have.
I worked for a company that offered up the same proposal to the sth africans some 6 years ago using israeli technology

for a number of reasons it didn't get up - bear in mind that the Suds are the only continental power there that has the money and infrastructure required to do this.

it goes downhill from there.
 
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ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Hi I am a Conservationist fighting a loosing battle against the fight against Rhino poaching in Southern Africa.
I would like to use military UAV systems to catch these criminals in the act.
To get the funding to start up I need to set up a proposal and I need help with costs of different systems.
Can someone please help me with contacts for different manufacturers etc.

Thanks
Something like the Skylark UAV would seem to be an appropriate capability for this sort of thing. Whether it is affordable or not is a different kettle of fish. You also have to worry about flying a UAV in civilian airspace, it is not a simple matter of buying a UAV and off you go....

Anyway contact details for Elbit systems (manufacturer of the Skylark) can be found here:

https://www.elbitsystems.com/elbitmain/area-in2.asp?parent=3&num=279&num2=279

The Aerosonde UAV might be an alternative as well. Manufaturered by AAI (Textron Systems) it has application in military, civil and scientific fields.

Contact details are: For more information, contact Rex Hayes at [email protected] or 410-628-3300.

Products

Best of luck.

AD
 

GI-Gizmo

New Member
UAV Systems to Hunt Down Rhino Poachers . . .

In order to figure out what UAV systems would be most useful it depends on the area you need to cover, your basing options and range to search areas, the amount of time the average flight might be and ofcourse the budget allowed. The sensor suite and also the possible add-on sensors are going to be one of the most important and expensive part of the aircraft. Just the basic daylight, low-light and infared with decent zoom and resolution should be more than enough. Although you might need laser rangefinder/GPS coordinate calculator to really put the pinch on the poachers. I'm really supportive of your cause and wish you the best of luck in helping to reduce the devastating effects of poaching on such an amazing animal. To be honest, if I had my way, I would arm the UAVs with hellfire or griffin missiles and would not hesitate to fire on the poachers. I don't understand how anybody could hurt and butcher such a breathtaking and unique animal, especially with their numbers dwindling. In my mind somebody like that cannot be saved and is best dealt with quickly and forcefully.

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UAVs

To take a wild guess, without much knowledge of what your needs are and
probably timing the budget by twenty in my head, some of my dreams/ideas might be...

> AeroVironment RQ-11 'Raven'
The Raven is small, hand-launched and electric powered. It has a range of 6.2 miles, speed of 56km/h and endurance of about 60-90 mins.

> Boeing 'ScanEagle'
The ScanEagle is lightweight and catapult-launched. It has a range of over 100km +, flies at up to 140km/h and has an endurance time of over 20 hours +.

> Aeronautics 'Aerostar'
The Aerostar is flexible, effective and has been highly embraced by military and law enforcement. It can take-off from a catapult or runway and land on a runway or with a precision parachute system. It has a range of over 200km +, an altitude of up to 18,000ft, an endurance of over 12 hours + and can carry up to 110lbs of gear. Highway patrol agencies have purchased the Aerostar and have found it to be much more cost effective than a manned plane or helicopter and much more reliable and effective.
 

e-bird

New Member
Hi I am a Conservationist fighting a loosing battle against the fight against Rhino poaching in Southern Africa.
I would like to use military UAV systems to catch these criminals in the act.
To get the funding to start up I need to set up a proposal and I need help with costs of different systems.
Can someone please help me with contacts for different manufacturers etc.

Thanks
I am an amateur UAV designer and operator, the current legislation in RSA regarding the use of UAV's for non military use within controlled airspace is still in draft and not yet approved, thus all non-military UAV's fall within the radio control spectrum and the legislation as set out by SAMAA (the South African Model Aircraft Association).

Currently I am building a Skylark UAV ,dirt cheap and easy to operate. Will be flying within the next 2 weeks. Up to 1 hour flight time over a radius of 25 km. So, to get to the point, sometimes you have to "break" or bend the law to catch the poachers. Should you need help or see how it works you are welcome to contact me.
 

Tony477

New Member
What effects are u looking to achieve

Have you considered a UAV service?? It could take away all the issues in getting approvals to operate it . Much cheaper than buying.
 

Futurist

New Member
Have you considered a UAV service?? It could take away all the issues in getting approvals to operate it . Much cheaper than buying.
South Africa considers using UAS to track poachers.
25 November 2010
By Gary Mortimer

THE SA National Defence Force is considering using an unmanned drone helicopter to “target” rhino poachers, Defence Minister Lindiwe Sisulu said today (November 25).
She told a press conference in Pretoria she wanted state weapons company Denel to further develop an unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) it was working on so it could be used to help SA National Parks catch rhino poachers.
“The issue of rhinos is one we recognise as particularly brutal, and we have committed ourselves to SANParks in dealing with this matter.
“We also want to take advantage of the fact Denel has a particular UAV that is able to assist us,” she said.
Sisulu described the UAV as “like a [model] helicopter that your eight-year-old sons use”.
It was unmanned and able to take photos.
“They say it is so good it is able to detect the colour of the shirt of the poacher.
“In the long term we can build on it. We want to develop it to the point where we can target the poacher.
“Initially we might just paint him red and arrest him, but as time goes on we will take more drastic measures,” she said, but did not elaborate on what these measures might be. – Sapa




Considering the nature of the bush in South Africa, using a UAV in an anti-poaching capacity will only help Denel in developing their technology for counter-insurgency operations, a highly marketable theatre of operations. I’d argue for the weaponisation of these vehicles to remain non-lethal to avoid any potential ethical conflicts that may arise, and to remove the possibility of fatalities arising from mistaken identity/intent. There is nothing to say however that a potent cocktail of paint and pepper balls (or a variation thereof) couldn’t be employed. I have no sympathy with poachers, but would hate to see such a brilliant program, should it deploy, end up grounded thanks to the fact that a poacher got exactly what he deserved, or immeasurably worse, an innocent get what they most definitely did not deserve.


Tyler on 26 November 2010 at 5:05 pm
I would think that anyone who sets out to poach rhinos is likely to be armed with a rifle that enables him/her to accurately shoot a large caliber, high velocity bullet at a chosen target some distance away. How difficult is it for the poacher to turn the gun and shoot the UAV?


kbosak on 27 November 2010 at 11:44 am
“How difficult is it for the poacher to turn the gun and shoot the UAV?”
It is ridiculously difficult to shot down a small helo drone even when using gatling. The targetting is the key, the target is absurdally small, far, not easily detectable and moving even when the operators don’t want it to.


John L. on 27 November 2010 at 10:18 am
I have considered running hunting expeditions to take out the poachers. Since many poachers are killed in the field, why not make a game out of it! Airfare, ground transportation, a nice clean hotel, tips included, and at the end a Human head to put on the wall in your den!
 

arcturus

New Member
UAV maker wants to assist anti-poaching efforts

The company I work for makes a UAV that would be ideal for anti-poaching efforts. We can fly 14+ hours burning approximately 1/3 U.S. gallon per hour. We carry EO/IR sensors that are effective at 3,000' AGL and we operate in rough terrain without a runway. We'd have to work on where the funding would come from, but we're interested in helping. What's allowable on this forum in terms of connecting to discuss what you want to do?

Hi I am a Conservationist fighting a loosing battle against the fight against Rhino poaching in Southern Africa.
I would like to use military UAV systems to catch these criminals in the act.
To get the funding to start up I need to set up a proposal and I need help with costs of different systems.
Can someone please help me with contacts for different manufacturers etc.

Thanks
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I just returned from a tour overseas flying the Apache. My task force had 3 UAV assetts attached, Grey Eagle, Shadow and Scan Eagle. I was a given an excellent tour of all three including obvserving their operator and payload manager in action as well as getting a good understanding of what the various sensor packages could do.

Grey Eagle is out, it would be way to expensive to operate.

Shadow was okay, but it is VERY noisy platform and can be heard far and wide.

Scan Eagle impressed the heck out of me. It is small, extremely quiet and the payload options we saw worked spectacularly. It does not require an airfield/runway as it is launched via catapult and recovered with a vertical trap line. It is also very mature having cut it's teeth on tuna boats.

Besides the platforms performance capabilities and requirements I think the really important part is the sensor package and it's ability to capture the images necessary for it's tasking. It wont help to have a UAV with range and endurance if the sensor package isn't up to the task. You should be able to contact Boeing directly for more info. Here's a link to their Scan Eagle page: Boeing: ScanEagle
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Scan Eagle impressed the heck out of me. It is small, extremely quiet and the payload options we saw worked spectacularly. It does not require an airfield/runway as it is launched via catapult and recovered with a vertical trap line.
There's some special variants of the scan eagle under development. one of which will end up in RAAF/USN livery.

damn shame that we won't get them till 2017..
 

Gremlin29

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
There's some special variants of the scan eagle under development. one of which will end up in RAAF/USN livery.

damn shame that we won't get them till 2017..
They will be worth the wait. The whole system is so well thought out, and considering it's small size it really is an amazing platform. If Oz gets the upgraded night system it will probably be the best return for the dollar in defense spending they see this decade, in my opinion.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
They will be worth the wait. The whole system is so well thought out, and considering it's small size it really is an amazing platform. If Oz gets the upgraded night system it will probably be the best return for the dollar in defense spending they see this decade, in my opinion.
absolutely. its not always the big ticket items which make/define capability...

there are some very very nice variants on the way.
 

WolfC.lupus

New Member
I find this suggestion very interesting, since it combines the two things I love, the military and conservation. Please keep us updated on the progress of this project. I think it could be a very usefull method in the right hands.
 

arcturus

New Member
Really want to contact people fighting poachers

I read last week the number of rhinos killed tripled in 2010. And there weren't that many to begin with.

Right now we're flying FLIR Cobalt 190, Goodrich TASE-400, OAI KJ-640, among other EO/IR sensors. And other types of payloads, too, that could be used to fight poaching. We're flying 16 hours at 1/3 gallon of fuel per hour, on average (2 lbs. of fuel/hour.) This is an activity we'd like to get involved in. The trick for us is to find out who the best people are to talk to. Can anyone tell me of a way to reach the person who started this thread? I'm new to the forums and want to make sure I'm doing it correctly and within the rules.
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Can anyone tell me of a way to reach the person who started this thread? I'm new to the forums and want to make sure I'm doing it correctly and within the rules.
the original OP has posted just once and some 5 months ago, that indicates a "one off" and/or trawling.

if you're serious about this then I can assist, but I cannot actively or visibly exercise previous contacts due to current work restrictions due to my normal job (probity issues etc)

just a hint, these people expect business cases to be done well in advance and expect to see some rigour behind a proposal.

power point shows just won't cut it - they've been burnt by too many "boxfloggers" in the past

my contacts are based around botswana, angola, mozambique, sth africa. I won't deal with nigeria or parallel and north of it.
 

EXSSBN2005

New Member
I'm not sure about what the price range your looking at but for a lower functioning platform you could check out Marcus UAV UNMANNED AERIAL VEHICLE SYSTEMS , you will need to try to get a export permit for most UAV technology from the US but this looks like a pretty cheap version that I found a few years ago. You wouldnt be patrolling the whole park with this but maybe watching an individual or small group would be possiable with a set up like this or one of their competitors. DIYdrones is a good site for trying to build it yourself or for connecting with other people who are more knowledgeable than me (not hard on this subject but I would like to know more.)
 
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