Yep, yep and yep.
The threat has changed and Hellfire is a much better weapon for whacking swarm boats and the like than Penguin.
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The threat has changed and Hellfire is a much better weapon for whacking swarm boats and the like than Penguin.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Ok, thats what I had thought, but wasn't sure.
I suppose its always going to be a trade off between carrying a larger number of shorter range weapons vs a lesser number of heavier and larger longer range weapons.
Plus of course circumstances change.
But anyway, one of the great advantages for the future, with the purchase of the MH60Rs, is that over the 20+ year life of the airframe, whatever the US Navy does in the way of updates and integration of systems and new weaponary, we receive the benefit of that as a flow on.
Buying "off the shelf" has thoses advantages, just the same as we should also receive with future updates over the life of the F/A18F's and eventually the F35A's.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
I suspect other important/deciding elements leading to the 'Romeo' selection had to do with it being already in-service with the USN. IIRC the first NFH90 was to reach IOC with the first customer some time this year (Norway? the Netherlands?
) However, that date was before some of the NH90 TTH's started to have some service issues, which might well have led to delays in service entry for the naval variant. With the RAN getting a very capable platform already in service largely allows the RAN to avoid a repeat of the entire Seasprite debacle.Additionally, since the other operator is the USN and they will operate it in numbers, not only are there interoperability synergies, but the RAN can potentially participate in the global USN MH-60R logistics train, which can ease support and future development costs.
Thirdly, with the NFH90, AFAIK the avionics fitout can vary significantly between users. Which means that the fitout which the RAN might want/need is unique to the RAN. The means that there might be systems intergration costs (and difficulties a la Seasprite) but that also any future upgrading the RAN wished to do, would be 'on its own' as it were.
Lastly, I also suspect that the In service date for the 'Romeo' was sooner than what the NFH90 was projected to be. And that, I suspect was the deciding factor. Particularly due to age and level of usage which the S-70B-2's are receiving.
-Cheers
RAN herself conducted the inspection on the second hand ships (Newport LST's that became Kanimbla and Manoora) that Largs Bay is replacing...
That idea didn't turn out as well as hoped...
Pretty simple really, defence is the buyer, Class provide survey and certificaiton services to defence and Teekay, for what ever reason, are providing a third party assessment.
Definitely. Some have tried to make the issue that the MH-60R doesn't carry a "serious" anti-ship missile and that Hellfire's aren't up to the job, but that is a convenient fiction as ASM is the role for which RAN is equipped with the Harpoon II missile presently and an updated weapon in future years.
A Harpoon missile whilst great at shooting holes in big ships, is a bit unwieldy for a swam boat attack or riverine type warfare. Both of which the MH-60R will excel at...
I was under the impression that the RAN survey was pretty much spot on but their advice was ignored. I do know that the Naval Archs at Garden Island and Cockatoo were pretty brutal in their assessment as well but also ignored.RAN herself conducted the inspection on the second hand ships (Newport LST's that became Kanimbla and Manoora) that Largs Bay is replacing...
That idea didn't turn out as well as hoped...
At the end of the day though we got over a decades effective and efficient service out of the pair of them for less than a single new hull would likely have cost and based on that service the acquisition of the LHDs was justified. Would the LHDs even be on order now if we had bought a new hull back in the 90s?
Defence seems to be adding layer upon layer of review onto things these days. I can't help but wonder if it because the Government and defence in general have become so risk adverse that no one wants to make a decission unless they can blame someone else if it goes pear shaped.
Hit the nail on the head, shift the liability of the assesment away from government and defence into the public sector
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
If the navy is putting itself into a position where they may be facing swarm boats, there is no reason they couldn't put a squadron of Tigers onto an LHD and sending that with whatever Task Group was being sent.
8 Hellfires each should make a mess of of most boat swarms.
8 Hellfires each should make a mess of of most boat swarms.
I can see plenty of deployments in RAN's future that don't require the deployment of a major amphibious unit but still face a threat of small boat attack. Obviously out major surface combatants are pretty well armed to defend against such threats, but more is always better, IMHO.
MEA patrols spring to mind, from both points of view...
Will the MH-60Rs be in service before our MRH-90s? (IIRC either their IOC or FOC is 2014)I suspect other important/deciding elements leading to the 'Romeo' selection had to do with it being already in-service with the USN. IIRC the first NFH90 was to reach IOC with the first customer some time this year (Norway? the Netherlands?
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
No. The MRH-90's should have all be delivered by 2014, quite a few have already been delivered. The MH-60R's do not begin to arrive until 2014 and will presumably take a few years to all get here.
Nu-Ship Canberra
For those interested, Canberra is now out of dry dock and wharfside, I can't find any official updates at this stage but assuming pods, rudders etc all installed and ready to go. Here is a link for some updated pics, not much visually has changed
fotosdebarcos.com / fotosdebarcos.org :: Ver tema - HMAS 02 Canberra
I have a contact at the project office, I will try and see if she is still ahead of sched (was launched 2 months ahead of sched) and see if this will equate to her coming to Williamstown a bit earlier ? But this will obviously be dependent on the booking and schedule of the Blue Marlin
As a side note JC1 is currently on an extended cruise (the longest for her so far) throughout the Med, she has embarked 3 x helos, 1 x Harrier for flight op checks and crew training and also 100 Marines & 2 x LCM-1E
For those interested, Canberra is now out of dry dock and wharfside, I can't find any official updates at this stage but assuming pods, rudders etc all installed and ready to go. Here is a link for some updated pics, not much visually has changed
fotosdebarcos.com / fotosdebarcos.org :: Ver tema - HMAS 02 Canberra
I have a contact at the project office, I will try and see if she is still ahead of sched (was launched 2 months ahead of sched) and see if this will equate to her coming to Williamstown a bit earlier ? But this will obviously be dependent on the booking and schedule of the Blue Marlin
As a side note JC1 is currently on an extended cruise (the longest for her so far) throughout the Med, she has embarked 3 x helos, 1 x Harrier for flight op checks and crew training and also 100 Marines & 2 x LCM-1E
Excellent, if they can deliver her ahead of schedule and under budget there is a change she will only be 12 months late and 30% over budget by the time Williamstown have worked their magic.
Oh good. I thought I was the only one terrified about how this project will go once BAE get their grubby little hands on the platforms...
hwell
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
From the announcement the first two MH-60R's are to be delivered in 2014, with the balance by ~2015/2016 IIRC. In short, along roughly the same timeframe as the original helicopter rationalization plan.
Now a number of the MRH-90's have been delivered, but there had been (are?) some issues with them like floors cracking, engine issues, etc. AFAIK they have not yet reached FOC.
-Cheers
I was going to ask Volkodav for a loan, he looks like he is in a generous mood with his optomistic statementOh good. I thought I was the only one terrified about how this project will go once BAE get their grubby little hands on the platforms...
They haven't even reached IOC so are a long way from FOC. Navy IOC is just one MRH 90 at sea and Army IOC a four helo troop. Currently IOC achievement is about 12 months late and counting.
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