Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[SASWanabe]

the Aegir family is 4 ships. 3 tankers and 1 joint stores

http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/resources/33/Aegir-18R_LandAnim_FINAL_200809.pdf

http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/resources/33/2007-09-26Aegirdatasheet.pdf

http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/resources/33/WhatPriceNavalisationinMilitarySupportShips.pdf

Swerve, the link in your post leads to a reply screen

http://media.bmt.org/bmt_media/resources/95/AegirBrochure.pdf

 

[htbrst]

Kiwi to fly over anti-piracy force

A black pennant emblazoned with a white kiwi will be hoisted in the Gulf of Aden this month as a New Zealand naval officer takes control of a US-led task force fighting Middle East piracy.

Captain Jim Gilmour's appointment as head of Combined Task Force 151 marks the first time a New Zealand officer has led such an international force in decades, possibly since World War 2....

NZ Herald: New Zealand's Latest News, Business, Sport, Weather, Travel, Technology, Entertainment, Politics, Finance, Health, Environment and Science

No doubt the experience will come in useful should NZ send frigates to the area in the future, and with the experience leading an international task force particuarly invaluable.

Being based on a US ship can't hurt ties with the US either, and as a recent CO of the Canterbury, he may gain an interesting perspective as to her use in the area vs sending a frigate as has been discussed on here before

 

[StevoJH]

I would have thought it would have been a Commodore or Rear Admiral position rather then a Capitains position.

Or do the RNZN still consider Commodore to be a position rather then a rank?

 

[stryker NZ]

I would have thought it would have been a Commodore or Rear Admiral position rather then a Capitains position.

Or do the RNZN still consider Commodore to be a position rather then a rank?

thats what i was thinking as far as i know all the previous commanders of the task force have been at least rear-admirals.

none the less it will be a great oppourtunity

 

[MrConservative]

Commodore is a rank in the RNZN and relates to RA Lower Half. Jim Gilmour may very well be given the rank of Temporary Commodore during this stint. Same thing happened to Tony Parr the current CN when he was sent to Tampa in 2003 as the Kiwi SNO at CentCom.

He is certainly ticking the right boxes to be a future MCC after this experience.

 

[StevoJH]

Commodore is a rank in the RNZN and relates to RA Lower Half

As far as I know only the USN use that rank, hence why I was asking if the RNZN had the rank of Commodore or not. Traditionally 'Commodore' was a position rather then a rank, this was not changed until (mid?) last century.

Rear Admiral 'lower class' is a bit of a joke really, they even get to wear two stars AFAIK.

 

[CJohn]

The RNZN rank structure is basically outlined here

 

[lopez]

The RNZN rank structure is basically outlined here

i feel sorry for the steward specialist lol....

 

[MrConservative]

As far as I know only the USN use that rank, hence why I was asking if the RNZN had the rank of Commodore or not. Traditionally 'Commodore' was a position rather then a rank, this was not changed until (mid?) last century.

Rear Admiral 'lower class' is a bit of a joke really, they even get to wear two stars AFAIK.

When did this change Steve? I always thought the (07) pay scale RADM was a single star.

Didn't the USN have the Commodore rank for a short time in the 80's? I knew that they made a few temporary Commodore in the War mainly as a stop gap measure - US Naval Reserve usually to stop cluttering up the Naval list with Admirals.

 

[StevoJH]

Nevermind, must have gotten confused with something else. Yes they are one star equivilent.

But for some reason I thought they still wore the two stars of a Rear Admiral.

Just looked it up.

One Star Rank
1981-1983: Commodore Admiral
1983-1983: Commodore
1983-Present: Rear Admiral (Lower-Half)

Couldn't find pre-1981 insignia, but wiki suggests that prior to that the O-7 Rear Admirals wore two stars.

Sounds like the US Navy have/had a real messy system of rank....

 

[Todjaeger]

Nevermind, must have gotten confused with something else. Yes they are one star equivilent.

But for some reason I thought they still wore the two stars of a Rear Admiral.

Just looked it up.

One Star Rank
1981-1983: Commodore Admiral
1983-1983: Commodore
1983-Present: Rear Admiral (Lower-Half)

Couldn't find pre-1981 insignia, but wiki suggests that prior to that the O-7 Rear Admirals wore two stars.

Sounds like the US Navy have/had a real messy system of rank....

With respect to the rank of Commodore, yes the US has had it a little messy. OTOH so to have various other naval services. The addition of a Star was fairly recent for the RAN, and it has also recently become a 'Flag' rank for the RN.

From a historical perspective, the brevet rank of commodore was used to denote the officer in command of a squadron of vessels, and during this time the officer had a broad pennant flown aboard the flagship of the squadron. The flagship would also have a captain commanding the ship and the captain as was normal was responsible for the operation and conduct of the ship. At times a squadron was commanded by a captain, who was the senior captain of the ships the squadron was composed of (and usually the largest/most guns), but in these circumstances the squadron commander did not have a broad pennant.

In USN usage, Commodore was used much like the rank of admiral was except being a brevet post, prior to the US Civil War when the first USN officer was promoted to that rank. After the US Civil War, the rank of Commodore l;argely fell out of US usage until WWII when it was again used to indicate which officer was in command of a squadron or flotilla of ships. After the war, it again started to fall out of usage until the 1980's when it again reappeared, this time to indicate which captain commanding a squadron of destroyers, frigates or other similar escorts was responsible for command of the group.

Give it time, and the situation will undoubtedly change again.

-Cheers

 

[exported_kiwi]

All I can say, as a NZer, is God help us, I served my time, my Dad did, both my Grandfathers did. and our useless POS gov't, sell's us, down the line! Doesn't ANZAC mean anything, or sacrifice, or service, or love of country! I am totally disillusioned. Sorry folks, maybe wrong thread but, I've had a gutsfull of NZ's defence, so called, policy! It's a damned joke!
Edited for spelling mistakes! Some Kiwi's can spell ya know!

 

[ngatimozart]

All I can say, as a NZer, is God help us, I served my time, my Dad did, both my Grandfathers did. and our useless POS gov't, sell's us, down the line! Doesn't ANZAC mean anything, or sacrifice, or service, or love of country! I am totally disillusioned. Sorry folks, maybe wrong thread but, I've had a gutsfull of NZ's defence, so called, policy! It's a damned joke!
Edited for spelling mistakes! Some Kiwi's can spell ya know!

Better thread for this is the NZDF thread. You will find that most likely the majority of us do agree with you. Personally you put it politer than I.

 

[recce.k1]

Well the good folks in the ADF and NZDF are in Rabaul doing good but dangerous work locating unexploded WW2 ammunition.

RNZN news release on HMNZS Resolution's efforts: RNZN - Media Releases

Media have reported on a possible WW2 submarine being found. This article (updated an hour ago) reports Australian authorities believe it to be Japanese:
Sunken submarine found by NZ navy may be from World... | Stuff.co.nz.

Despite an earlier report suggesting the sub is Australian.. Oops, noted the author

(Incidentally Huon minehunter HMAS Gascoyne was also involved in the find. Just mentioning this because a few days ago on the RAN thread made mention of an Oz media report suggesting the MHC's weren't terribly active).

 

[ngatimozart]

Well the good folks in the ADF and NZDF are in Rabaul doing good but dangerous work locating unexploded WW2 ammunition.

RNZN news release on HMNZS Resolution's efforts: RNZN - Media Releases

Media have reported on a possible WW2 submarine being found. This article (updated an hour ago) reports Australian authorities believe it to be Japanese:
Sunken submarine found by NZ navy may be from World... | Stuff.co.nz.

Despite an earlier report suggesting the sub is Australian.. Oops, noted the author

(Incidentally Huon minehunter HMAS Gascoyne was also involved in the find. Just mentioning this because a few days ago on the RAN thread made mention of an Oz media report suggesting the MHC's weren't terribly active).

Saw that. The Aussie media take a more active interest in defence than kiwi media does but they & their kiwi compatriots need to do to Defence 101; preferably the course with all the pictures and words of one syllable or less. The biggest laugh in the last week was the Western Australian reporter who when writing on the RAAF Wedgetails (Boeing 737 AWACS) being used for CHOGM security, wrote that as well as being able to monitor airspace and could vector Hornets etc., had ability to shoot down target with its lasers. Go figure.

Anyway Stuff reported today that the sub found in Rabaul is not the RAN AE1. It is though to be a Japanese sub. Sunken submarine found by NZ navy may be from World... | Stuff.co.nz A bit sad for the RAN. I do hope that they do find it eventually. After all they did find the cruiser HMAS Sydney.

 

[ngatimozart]

I saw this link on the RAN thread and am wondering if it would be a suitable replacement for Endeavour. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuiderkruis_class_JSS"]Zuiderkruis class support ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] It appears to be along the lines of what NZDF are wanting in an Endeavor replacement and it would be highly compatible with RAN and USN assets. Might be a bit large, but then it would allow for a lot of flexibility in future rerolling options and /or increase of capability options. Also it is a design that is currently being built for the Dutch Navy so if NZDF acquired one for RNZN then by time we get it Dutch will have sorted any design issues.

 

[swerve]

IIRC it's based on the Enforcer family. Damen Schelde has built & sold Enforcers down to 12000 tons or so (Rotterdam), & offered even smaller ones. It shouldn't be a major problem to build a smaller JSS Enforcer. Think of a Rotterdam or (if you want something bigger) de Witt, with no dock but improved cargo & RAS capability.

Zuiderkruis will be able to put CH-47 in its hangar. I doubt the RNZN will need that.

 

[Sea Toby]

All I can say, as a NZer, is God help us, I served my time, my Dad did, both my Grandfathers did. and our useless POS gov't, sell's us, down the line! Doesn't ANZAC mean anything, or sacrifice, or service, or love of country! I am totally disillusioned. Sorry folks, maybe wrong thread but, I've had a gutsfull of NZ's defence, so called, policy! It's a damned joke!
Edited for spelling mistakes! Some Kiwi's can spell ya know!

I believe this design would make a good replacement for Endeavour with the superstructure more towards the aft instead of forward... I believe the new Dutch ship is too large for New Zealand's more modest needs...

New Zealand already has a transport roro ship with the Canterbury. I believe New Zealand needs a replenishment ship with more cargo/supplies and troop lift carrying capacity, not necessarily roro... I don't see the New Zealand government spending as much as a frigate for a replenishment ship replacement...

This image reflects a replenishment ship enlarged somewhat for more containers using a crane foward and a larger superstructure for a larger hangar and troop accommodations the Endeavour doesn't have...

As folks post images of Mercedes, I'll post images of a more modest Opel... A single helicopter landing zone flight deck better than the Endeavour suitable for a NH90/Blackhawk/Seasprite will do... After all, little New Zealand isn't Australia or the Netherlands....

 

[t68]

Ngatimozart,
Although the Zuiderkruis ship is an excellent design and fit for the RNZN, having a ship that has HMNZS Canterbury ability and RAS as well is the bright way to go, but unfortunately the budget for HMNZS Endeavour replacement is caped at 250million NZD. As designed a Zuiderkruis will set you back 600plus million NZD more than double what government is willing to spend if you look back to around page 148/9 bit off a discussion comes up about Endeavours replacement and keeps popping its head up here and there till the current page, Lucasnz found this write up in May about Endeavour,
New Navy ship to have 'pirate guns' | Stuff.co.nz

And the ship that Sea Toby is bringing up,
HMNZS Endeavour
Shipbucket.com • View topic - Damen Enforcer 17028

I also suspect that the RAN would also be interested in an enlarged version of this ship to roughly the same size as HMAS Sirius (25000t)

 

[Gibbo]

HMNZS Resolution to be 'paid-off' 2012

Most recent 'Navy Today' (news mag) came with some mailouts about RNZN's 70th celebrations etc. One was a poster showing all vessels in the fleet. Last one shown was HMNZS Resolution and the last line of that clearly stated... 'HMNZS Resolution is (to) be paid off in 2012'.

Whats' the guts - first I've seen mentioned of this!?! Being the only dedicated survey vessel the RNZN has, this strongly suggests the RNZN is about to lose the contract for provision of sea charts for LINZ. NZ Govt had signalled changes to chart production - sounds like it'll go fully commercial or perhaps NIWA will gear up to use MV Tangaroa in the role!?!

NZDF plans are to replace Resolution & Manawanui with a single 'Littoral Warfare Support Vessel' but that's some years off (around 2017 from memory). So I guess with Govt belt-tightening they've been given the hard word & told - "if you don't need 2 vessels in that role going forward, then you don't need 2 from next year if we remove the LINZ contract from you" !?!

With REMUS AUV capable of shallow (littoral) hydrogaphy and able to be deployed from any available vessel I guess there's less call for Resolutions capability if the LINZ contract goes.

Hopefully there will be a silver lining in this for RNZN with them getting what will hopefully prove to be a dedicated & capabale LWSV that is optimised for Dive-support; MCM & littoral military hydrogaphy.