Official Chengdu J-20 Discussion Thread

[SpudmanWP]

1. The F-22 can carry 8 internal AAMs (6xAMRAAM & 2xAIM-9) and 8 external AAMs.

2. The problem with UCAVs against the F-22 are multi-fold.
..A. The UCAV can't see the F-22

..B. The UCAV would have to be under the constant control of a ground operator. This would necessitate constant comms traffic which the F-22 is likely to easily pick up on.

..C. The F-22 will be able to use it's LPI APG-77 to tell the difference between a J-20 and a UCAV.

..D. No UCAV currently in development has reliable A2A capability, ie no radar, 360 EO, Mk1 Eyeball, etc.

..E. Unless this happens in the next 5-7 years then the F-22 can count on F-35 flying with it and using it's EOTS to positively ID the UCAVs as such.

 

[DarthAmerica]

a F22 does not have 20 missiles. the fact of the matter is China will likely deploy cheap UCAV drone against F22, in which forces F22 to shoot them down or risk counterattack and exhausting the F22's munition before the main force arrives, forcing it to RTB/reload. China intent to win by attrition not superiority.

China's doctrine remains entirely defensive and so long as the fight take place near china(within 1st island chain such as Taiwan), US cannot prevail by superiority, it must commit numbers. this is why there is increase carrier deployment, F22 cannot beat China, US need numbers which F16/18 can provide(until more drone are available). it would be a attrition battle with J20 and F22 held in reserve performing only strategical/critical missions.

The age of manned fighter is coming to a close as UCAV gives the missile the "brains" to fight without the fighters, the future will be a drone war. perhaps why the F22 is cancelled is because the DOD already consider them obsolete to whatever secret UCAV they have cooking.



let all consider this: is the J20 really the centrepiece of Chinese defence? or is it just "a marketing tool"? the J20 is probably released to upstart the pakfa program which flew the year before. using the J20 to fight F22 is probably not what the Chinese had in mind. but it had to be cheaper, more economical, it has to be "sellable"! US can't even sell the F22 to Japan; they don't want an "unmarketable" F22. it all about the $$$ for them...

When I read statements such as "F-22 cannot beat China", to me, it suggest a fundamental misunderstanding of warfare. Wars are not won by platforms. If we look at German technology during WW2 it's clear that the allies were behind in key areas. Yet the allies won. Why is "beating China" a burden to be bared by just the F-22? The DoD has a system so robust that it could threaten China in ways that they couldn't hope to match or stop. Winning wars is not about platforms...

-DA

 

[ivyleague1985]

New Close Look of Chinese Stealth Fighter - Black Silk J-20

Some insiders shot it very recently. It seems J-20 is being tested intensively these days. Will it beat F-22 Raptor? :duel

 

[Relix7195]

f 22 vs j 20

Some insiders shot it very recently. It seems J-20 is being tested intensively these days. Will it beat F-22 Raptor? :duel

Don't have a straight answer as still not viewed enough vids on chinese j 20 got one including T 50. J20 looks a cross btw f 35 and f 23 in size. like compatiblity of f 22 bets this, it will be interesting to know what their payloads like . :daz

 

[Feanor]

Merged. Don't start new threads if one already exists.

 

[HKSDU]

Some insiders shot it very recently. It seems J-20 is being tested intensively these days. Will it beat F-22 Raptor? :duel

The J-20 just looks like a J-20. Stop with the cross comparison. You can't go beyond physics. Design of every aircraft has ancestry appearance to their earlier cousins.

I keep thinking that the J-20 is a long range strike fighter.

 

[Twinblade]

regarding J-20, has any mock-up of AESA or A2A missiles for internal bays been made public ?

 

[plasmafish]

Will it beat F-22 Raptor?

Does it need to?

As the F-22 have an advertised combat radius of 410nmi, the J-20 only needs to beat the refuelling tankers. Might be easier said than done though.

 

[plasmafish]

I keep thinking that the J-20 is a long range strike fighter.

Really? I keep thinking that the J-20 is a anti-AWAC/tanker interceptor.

I have trouble believing that China will build ~$100 million+ fighters to replace present frontline fighters at anything close to a 1:1 basis considering they still have J-7s still flying.
Therefore, I presume the majority of Chinese airpower in the near future will consist of J-10s and J-11 variants. In this mix, I think the J-20 is most useful in neutralizing enemy force multipliers.

 

[lizs]

J-20 recently revealed its advanced EODAS system, which in the past F-35 exclusively owns.

Pics:
J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

And it's rumored that J-20 will also incorporate a laser jammer in the near future, which is used to defeat the current AA missiles with imaging infrared seeker.

 

[Feanor]

J-20 recently revealed its advanced EODAS system, which in the past only F-35 exclusively owns.

When China has something remotely resembling an advanced IR system then I'll believe it.

 

[luccloud]

Why is "beating China" a burden to be bared by just the F-22? The DoD has a system so robust that it could threaten China in ways that they couldn't hope to match or stop. Winning wars is not about platforms...

For the Chinese, it's not about developing a military at par with the Americans. All they need is something to convenience US that they have little to gain in a war with China and the cost is way too high.

Nowadays, economics and politics is much more important than brute military strength.

This might be OP, but I don't want to start another thread. Isn't the J15 just a variant of J11? Why they assign a new designation instead of J11N or something like that.

 

[jeffb]

For the Chinese, it's not about developing a military at par with the Americans. All they need is something to convenience US that they have little to gain in a war with China and the cost is way too high.

Nowadays, economics and politics is much more important than brute military strength.

This might be OP, but I don't want to start another thread. Isn't the J15 just a variant of J11? Why they assign a new designation instead of J11N or something like that.

Maybe I'm a little cynical but its just propaganda, number of types > number of planes. Much like the photos of the J20 that are being drip fed to try and keep people speculating about it.

 

[Scorpion82]

The J15 is a copy of the Su-33, the J-11 a copy of the Su-27. This might be the main reason for using a different designation.

 

[Feanor]

The J15 is a copy of the Su-33, the J-11 a copy of the Su-27. This might be the main reason for using a different designation.

I wouldn't say that. I think a more accurate description is that they used technology from the T-10K prototype coupled with the J-11 to produce the J-15. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a considerable difference between the J-15 and Su-33.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

When China has something remotely resembling an advanced IR system then I'll believe it.

They did produce their own IRST for J-11B. It's been more than half a decade since then, so it wouldn't surprise me if they have something similar to EOTS. Whether it is as capable is another matter.

 

[Feanor]

They did produce their own IRST for J-11B. It's been more than half a decade since then, so it wouldn't surprise me if they have something similar to EOTS. Whether it is as capable is another matter.

Did they produce their own or modify an imported one?

 

[Pathfinder-X]

Did they produce their own or modify an imported one?

For the system I linked, it probably has some Russian roots. Shengyang and Chengdu both have different contractors for sub-systems on their planes. While SAC and CAC cooperate with each other, these contractors compete against one another. Several contractor companies under SAC took major financial loss when J-20 project was given to CAC.

Also, it has been confirmed by a well known poster (who works for CAC) on Chinese forums that something similar to EODAS will be used on the J-20. Of course, he never gave any details except acknowledged it.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

I wouldn't say that. I think a more accurate description is that they used technology from the T-10K prototype coupled with the J-11 to produce the J-15. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a considerable difference between the J-15 and Su-33.

There are two Flanker variants being developed in China atm. One is the carrier-based J-15, distinguished by its canards. The second one is J-16, which will be twin-seated. J-16 will fill a similar role as F-15E Strike Eagle. Visually, it will resemble Su-30MKK.

 

[Feanor]

There are two Flanker variants being developed in China atm. One is the carrier-based J-15, distinguished by its canards. The second one is J-16, which will be twin-seated. J-16 will fill a similar role as F-15E Strike Eagle. Visually, it will resemble Su-30MKK.

Only visually? So this is the Chinese equivalent of the Su-34?

Anyways my main point was that the J-15 is likely to have less in common with the Su-33 (especially if their recent upgrade plans materialize) and more in common with the Su-27SK, T-10K, and indigenous Chinese technology.

Also, it has been confirmed by a well known poster (who works for CAC) on Chinese forums that something similar to EODAS will be used on the J-20. Of course, he never gave any details except acknowledged it.

The IRST on an Su-27SK can be called "something similar to EODAS"... Granted you mention him as a reliable source, but I'm honestly very hesitant. As it stands the Chinese have yet to serially produce any sophisticated indigenous EO sensor.