The USN uses flash hoods and gloves when at General Quarters.
Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates
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At action stations, depends on what part of the ship you are closed up at.
The dibbies on the upper decks, will be in DPNU, flap jackets, helmet, with anti flast.
At repair bases the majority are in DPNU, boots, anti flash. The fire hose teams, will be in full fire fighting rig, fire suit, gloves, helmet, etc.
I asked this question some time ago, appareltly we still do have the old stuff available and as a part of JP2048 these are to be replaced with new equipment. I believe it was Abraham who provided the information on it ? I can't remember what thread it was in though
Do you have an update on this Abraham or any information on what we may be looking at ?
Cheers
JP 2048 Phase 3 is to replace all ADF amphibious and ship to shore capabilities. Including the various lighters. I think we discussed it a few months ago in the Marines Corps thread in the Navy & Maritime section.
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Hi all, first time post!.. Enjoy reading the forum.
Firstly, I think we have got a great deal, Largs Bay for approx $A100m, right price, right ship and at the right time, especially until the LHDs come into service and beyond.
A number of thoughts/questions have come to mind.
Largs Bay certainly seems to be the correct fit for JP2048 Phase 4C (a budget of $A300-500m, only that it will come into service, for obvious reasons, 12-13 years earlier than planned because of the worn out LPA's.
The Phase 4C capability was to have come into service around the mid 2020's and have a service life of 20 years, eg retiring/replaced around 2045.
Largs Bay is already 5-6 years old, yes still very new, and if its in service for say, up to 20 years (if we look after her properly!!), that would see her being replaced around the early 2030's, which will be well before the LHD's themselves eventually require replacement.
So? Will Phase 4C be deleted? (as will happen with the RAAF's extra C17, the additional C130's not being proceeded with) OR will Phase 4C be "re-jigged" to come into effect when Largs Bay does retire?
Another question is, I assume, as has been mentioned, Largs Bay will receive a basic quick refit (Australian specific items, paint, minor repair, etc) before entering service, will that be in the UK or here after she arrives, and at what additional cost?
I would also assume that once in service early next year, Largs Bay will be operated "as is" in her current configuration until well after the LHD's are in service.
That brings me to my last point, major modifications, eg helicopter hanger. I had read that the Bay class had/has an option for hangar facilities, I would assume similar to her Dutch and Spanish part sisters?
I have seen pictures of what looks like a "temporary" hangar on the deck behind the bridge, have to protect helicopters from the weather, etc, if they are staying on deck for any period of time.
So possibly at her first major refit / upgrade hangar facilities may be included(?), and I wonder at what cost? I would again assume that we could utilise the "plans" that would have been prepared for the UK.
Has anyone seen any sketches / plans of what the Bays would look like with that upgrade?
Regards,
John
Firstly, I think we have got a great deal, Largs Bay for approx $A100m, right price, right ship and at the right time, especially until the LHDs come into service and beyond.
A number of thoughts/questions have come to mind.
Largs Bay certainly seems to be the correct fit for JP2048 Phase 4C (a budget of $A300-500m, only that it will come into service, for obvious reasons, 12-13 years earlier than planned because of the worn out LPA's.
The Phase 4C capability was to have come into service around the mid 2020's and have a service life of 20 years, eg retiring/replaced around 2045.
Largs Bay is already 5-6 years old, yes still very new, and if its in service for say, up to 20 years (if we look after her properly!!), that would see her being replaced around the early 2030's, which will be well before the LHD's themselves eventually require replacement.
So? Will Phase 4C be deleted? (as will happen with the RAAF's extra C17, the additional C130's not being proceeded with) OR will Phase 4C be "re-jigged" to come into effect when Largs Bay does retire?
Another question is, I assume, as has been mentioned, Largs Bay will receive a basic quick refit (Australian specific items, paint, minor repair, etc) before entering service, will that be in the UK or here after she arrives, and at what additional cost?
I would also assume that once in service early next year, Largs Bay will be operated "as is" in her current configuration until well after the LHD's are in service.
That brings me to my last point, major modifications, eg helicopter hanger. I had read that the Bay class had/has an option for hangar facilities, I would assume similar to her Dutch and Spanish part sisters?
I have seen pictures of what looks like a "temporary" hangar on the deck behind the bridge, have to protect helicopters from the weather, etc, if they are staying on deck for any period of time.
So possibly at her first major refit / upgrade hangar facilities may be included(?), and I wonder at what cost? I would again assume that we could utilise the "plans" that would have been prepared for the UK.
Has anyone seen any sketches / plans of what the Bays would look like with that upgrade?
Regards,
John
knightrider4
Active Member
Apologies for being off topic but shouldn't we be getting close to decision time regarding the RAN's replacement naval combat helicopter? Any ideas on which tender should get selected I personally hope the MH-60R gets up.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Me too, means ADF might actually have a new, deployable helo at some point, besides the Chinook...
I believe the NSC will be considering this later in the year. I have a faint recollection of Defmin Smith mentioning around June, though it wouldn't surprise me if it were announced at budget time. They usually like to make an announcement about some new capablity at that time and this is one of the bigger projects around at the moment...
Does the Bay have any shor of hangar for helicopters? if it doesnt... any plans for fitting one? that ship could be an incredible asset to fly UAVs... but i still think that for that prize you could get a Galicia class, wich as i understand may suit the RAN better because it can carry more troops and equipment and has a waaaaay better electronics suit and propper hangar...
Anyway its a great notice you aussies have purchased the Bay, along with the two LHDs it will provide unprecedented amphibious capabilities for Australia!
Anyway its a great notice you aussies have purchased the Bay, along with the two LHDs it will provide unprecedented amphibious capabilities for Australia!
The Bays use a tent which can house two medium helicopters with their tools/parts housed in a storage room nearby in the superstructure... While I am sure a proper hangar could be built, why waste the space for stacking containers?
What??? Australia has bought an assault ship to carry containers?? cmon man you have to be kidding, to do that there are much cheaper and better options...
And about the "tent thing" rofl... maybe if you are in summer and the day is calm... but why if is not, is always hot and calm in Australia? seriously, a proper hangar is needed, but if the sole a foremost purpose of that ship is going to be carrying containers... the aussies have missused the money.
t68
Well-Known Member
Primary role of the Bay class is sealift, she is not an amphibious assault ship.
Having hanger facility would be better and make an all round capability, but Australia will be getting 2 LHD which have the multi -role tasking be that aviation support with its own organic support asset's or ship to shore tasking from the well dock.
Bay class gives the ADF enormous flexibility which we currently don’t have, although we have amphibious assets most of the current ship needs port facility to get bulk commodities to shore or over the side using a crane to off load , Bay class gives the ADF the means to bring ashore bulk commodities via the well dock in a efficient and timely manner without port facility, it has been reported the 1 single Bay class is capable of moving and distributing the same amount of store or vehicles that all 3 current amphibious assts combined i do not think that is a waste of taxpayers’ money if she’s a glorified container ship so be it i am more than happy with it and at the price we got her for, me thinks the RN duded themselves via their pollies in HM gov.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_class_landing_ship_dock"]Bay class landing ship dock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Mounts_Bay_(L3008).jpg" class="image" title="RFA Mounts Bay"><img alt="RFA Mounts Bay" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Mounts_Bay_%28L3008%29.jpg/300px-Mounts_Bay_%28L3008%29.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/1/10/Mounts_Bay_%28L3008%29.jpg/300px-Mounts_Bay_%28L3008%29.jpg[/ame]
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canberra_class_landing_helicopter_dock[/ame]
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Shes fairly multiroled, but she will certainly carry containers. Look at her, she looks like a container ship.
We are getting her to be able to support the two LHD for longer periods. Sealifting things in and out and possibly around theater. While she has some amphibious capability, it is secondary.
She is weaker on aviation duties, but Australia is getting two of the (non USN)largest and most capable LHD on the planet. Depending on the timing, implementation, we will have the second largest avation deck area avalible on the planet. Our frigates currently have hangers so being deficent in this area is not a huge concern, that and we don't actually have many helos operating at the moment.
She might be asked to fill in for one LHD during operations as one may not be avalible, and she might also deploy resources after a natural disaster, or operate a small policing mission at one of the island nations. Very few of those require her to operate/continously embark aircraft.
I believe the paper did specify a hanger area, so I may be at sometime in the future they will build a more permanent hanger structure..Maybe something that is still removable.
We are getting her to be able to support the two LHD for longer periods. Sealifting things in and out and possibly around theater. While she has some amphibious capability, it is secondary.
She is weaker on aviation duties, but Australia is getting two of the (non USN)largest and most capable LHD on the planet. Depending on the timing, implementation, we will have the second largest avation deck area avalible on the planet. Our frigates currently have hangers so being deficent in this area is not a huge concern, that and we don't actually have many helos operating at the moment.
She might be asked to fill in for one LHD during operations as one may not be avalible, and she might also deploy resources after a natural disaster, or operate a small policing mission at one of the island nations. Very few of those require her to operate/continously embark aircraft.
I believe the paper did specify a hanger area, so I may be at sometime in the future they will build a more permanent hanger structure..Maybe something that is still removable.
I know perfectly about that, I work for Navantia currently assigned to the Adelaide welding team, and you are getting two great ships I can certainly tell...
Call me partial, but I will always prefer spanish ships, but its ok I didnt know what were you going to do with the Bay, and yes for carrying containers its certainly better than a Galicia class, my fault for that, i belived that it was an amphious assault ship...
Any plans for fitting that bulky piece of steel with some appropiate weapons?
Saludos.
Pretty much every asset the ADF has gets put to innovative uses. We are isolated, we have a relatively small force and little equipment. Where the US or europe can dial a number and have exactly what they need, we can't.
There will proberly be a time when this ship will conduct amphibious operations. But with the LHD's hopefully that would be a pretty rare circumstance, and of our chosing.
I would imagine some mini typhoons might be ordered, Phalax maybe? Basic self defence stuff. Normally it would be escorted by something like a frigate.
There will proberly be a time when this ship will conduct amphibious operations. But with the LHD's hopefully that would be a pretty rare circumstance, and of our chosing.
I would imagine some mini typhoons might be ordered, Phalax maybe? Basic self defence stuff. Normally it would be escorted by something like a frigate.
Here in Spain we know how to build up a decent blue water navy from low budget i supose thats why you are buying us the LHDs and the desing for the AWDs, both navies need good vessels but also have limited budgets...
I seriouly think that Australia needs more than 3 AWDs to protect the fleet its building up...
All I have to say is that there is much more to an amphibious ship than their helicopters...
Have you ever seen the film " Away all boats?" The boats, the boats, and the boats are the key to any amphibious operation... Its the boats that are going to deliver APCs and tanks ashore, not medium lift helicopters... Please rent or download the film, its one of my favorites...
As much as most of the troop lift helicopters is to be supplied by the Canberra LHDs, the British had planned for most of their troop lift helicopters to be supplied by the Albion, Bulwark, and Ocean... Not every amphibious ship has to carry four troop lift helicopters when others carry dozens...
Keep in mind the Bays can carry two medium lift helicopters with the tent set up... Most ships tend to sail around storms at sea as best they can, and amphibious operations are never done at high sea states. Otherwise, quoting General Eisenhower before D-day, the soldiers will drown before they reach the beach...
Back to reallty, most of the time the fat ships will be in port, and at sea usually for exercises, usually planned during good weather anyway... The troop lift helicopters won't be aboard for long periods of time unless the ship is engaged in a long deployment abroad... If a storm does develop, its most likely the exercise will be cancelled...
No reason why Largs Bay won't have a helo attached when in RAN service. Tobruk has done many deployments lasting for months with a Seaking or Squirrel on the aft flight deck for the duration eg Somalia in the early 90's. Just have to cover them up well when not in use, though obviously servicing does become harder, but not impossible.
Cheers
Cheers
With only one in service aren't you are better off retaining as much flexibility as possible rather than going for a fixed permanent hanger? What's wrong with a collapsable protective cover until the Canberra's arrive? Once in service you will be able to carry all your helo lift needed to support amphibious operations in one active Canberra, thus leaving the Bay for what it was designed for, carriage of men, equipment and supplies ready to follow-up once the beachhead is secure. If you need to send it on humanitarian missions as a stand alone asset then build a temporary hanger as required. Instead of spending money on a fixed hanger why not invest any spare cash on ugrading landingcraft, maxi floats and associated paraphernalia.
The UK have now reconfigured their minimum sized active amphib unit and rebranded it as a Royal Navy Response Force Task Group (RFTG). This comprises 1 x Bay, 1 x FFG/DDG, 1 x Albion (or Ocean). With the arrival of the Canberra, the RAN can do the same and have a RAN Response Force Task Group up and running in no time with 1 x Bay, 1 x FFG.DDG, 1 x Canberra. I'm hoping that if the Aus Bay class works well, then the Gov will build/buy a second? This will hopefully mean you will have a Bay/Canberra class combo available 365 days of the year.
Wiki says 12 x 40 TEU or 24 x 24 TEU containers... A bit more than a few...
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