No-fly zone over Libya
- Thread starter lucinator
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destructivetouch
Member
According to AFP Libyan state TV has announced the shooting down of a French warplane over Libya.
Is the wiki number of 88 SA-2 owned by Libya any close to reality?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force"]Libyan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg" class="image"><img alt="Libyan Air Force roundel.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg/100px-Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a6/Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg/100px-Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg.png[/ame]
And, what kind of threat would they pose to Coalition forces?
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force"]Libyan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg" class="image"><img alt="Libyan Air Force roundel.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg/100px-Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a6/Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg/100px-Libyan_Air_Force_roundel.svg.png[/ame]
And, what kind of threat would they pose to Coalition forces?
destructivetouch
Member
libyan air defence according to inss centre
View attachment 4580
another link
IMINT & Analysis: The Libyan SAM Network
It's finally started, after endless debates and discussions. Only time will tell where all this will eventually lead to.
BBC News - Libya: Coalition launches attacks from air and sea
Airstrikes begin on Libya targets - Africa - Al Jazeera English
Libya: Allied fighters hit Gaddafi's forces as West intervenes in conflict | World news | guardian.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-wests-favourite-crackpot-tyrant-2246415.html
BBC News - Libya: Coalition launches attacks from air and sea
Airstrikes begin on Libya targets - Africa - Al Jazeera English
Libya: Allied fighters hit Gaddafi's forces as West intervenes in conflict | World news | guardian.co.uk
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-wests-favourite-crackpot-tyrant-2246415.html
Bear in mind that SA-2's have been around for decades and several Western airforces have had actual experience in dealing with it, and have even had the chance to evaluate it. So unless conditions are perfect and the Libyans get lucky, the possibility of a SA-2 hitting an aircraft is slim.
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destructivetouch
Member
SAMs still dangerous on western aircrafts,,remember F117 over serbia !
F-15 Eagle
New Member
How will this affect America's national debt? At 14 trillion dollars will the debt go up?
what does ground fire have to do with SAMs?
that is a good question but can't be answered until the conflict is said and done. If the U.S. is content to just fire a couple missiles while letting the E.U. dealing with most of the grunt work, i don't see it adding much beyond the costs of the missiles.
however, if it gets to be more involved than that, the cost is naturally going to increase substantially (and with it, our dependence on countries like China to hold our debt).
SAM's and Triple AAA in general are 'dangerous' to all aircraft if the conditions are right, not to mention the training of the aircrew and other factors. The fact that only one F-117 was shot down during the Kosovo campaign and none over Iraq tells you a lot doesn't it? Most if not all NATO air arms train under very realistic simulated conditions to deal with the threat posed by SAM's.
t68
Well-Known Member
This may seem callous, but i do not think the UN or the western nations should get involved in this.
I believe it is an internal domestic problem and should be left to play out to its eventual end, from a technical point of view the groundswell of support against Gaddafi was only started with the successful Egypt uprising, they rebels believed that a larger groundswell of support would eventually lead to Gaddafi being removed from power.
It appears the country is deeply divided with support for both the rebels and pro Gaddafi which in turn has lead the uprising turning into a civil war, i can understand the west’s motivation for a regime change, but ultimately it has to be the Libyans themselves that turn things around for the better for all Libyans.
With the UN mandate for a armed intervention and the bombing overnight from the French, United States and United Kingdom will escalate the problems in Libya, it may slow Gaddafi down in the initial strike’s but will enhance his resolve to put the uprising down in other ways.
The UN/West intervention can be seen in the same light as the Saudi Arabia ground intervention in Bahrain, it has a political intervention with overtone of self national interests coming to the fore.
I believe it is an internal domestic problem and should be left to play out to its eventual end, from a technical point of view the groundswell of support against Gaddafi was only started with the successful Egypt uprising, they rebels believed that a larger groundswell of support would eventually lead to Gaddafi being removed from power.
It appears the country is deeply divided with support for both the rebels and pro Gaddafi which in turn has lead the uprising turning into a civil war, i can understand the west’s motivation for a regime change, but ultimately it has to be the Libyans themselves that turn things around for the better for all Libyans.
With the UN mandate for a armed intervention and the bombing overnight from the French, United States and United Kingdom will escalate the problems in Libya, it may slow Gaddafi down in the initial strike’s but will enhance his resolve to put the uprising down in other ways.
The UN/West intervention can be seen in the same light as the Saudi Arabia ground intervention in Bahrain, it has a political intervention with overtone of self national interests coming to the fore.
destructivetouch
Member
what i mean guys that SAMs (even old versions) still dangerous to 4 and 4++ aircrafts,,
many tactics could be used like popup tactic ,,, you can beat low-flying Helis to kill your Radars, by camping mediocre air defenses near them, such as ZU-23-2 or any of their missile bearing variants ,,
place your Gun-based AAs close to your radar assets to protect against Helis, SA-3s and other Missile based SAMs farther out but only fire when the signal is strong, consistent, and you are damn sure it's actually aenemy aircraft....
about iraq ,,we all know that most of iraq airdefences were western ones,,americans and french know all secrets and frequencies,,they jammed it succesfully ,,also they use big numbers of SLAMs to destroy airdefences bases,,hey man,iraq was facing alot of superpowers,,it's amistake if we said he can't do this or that...
Neither the UN, Arab League or any of the countries that pushed for intervention have announced what the plan will be if the 'Colonel' stays in power. Can't totally rely on military power to deal with what is also a huge political problem. Assuming the 'Colonel' falls, there is absolutely no gurantee that the rebels will play nice and will form a unity, democratic government. As I mentioned in a previous post on page 11 in this thread, I'm extremely curious as to what the response will be if a siimiliar situation were to occur in a different regional country - would there be the will and resources to intervene there also and would intervention be driven by other factors apart from moral and humanitarian reasons?
Iraq's integrated network, KARI, was done by the French. Saddam had lots of Soviet sourced radars and if I'm not mistaken, small number of chinese radars.
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IronsightSniper
Member
I don't think NATO has sent in Helis yet.
First wave of allied assault: 112 cruise missiles - Yahoo! News
AP article seems to imply that the US may not fly aircraft in support of a No-Fly zone, but might limit itsef to other roles like cruise missile strikes. Another article mentions Global Hawk overflight to do BDA on the 112 tomahawk strike.
I'm skeptical that US aircraft won't ultimately become involved. Does anyone think that the US/NATO might start operating armed UAV over Libya like the MQ-9? Or would they be too vulnerable to AAA/SA-7?
Adrian
AP article seems to imply that the US may not fly aircraft in support of a No-Fly zone, but might limit itsef to other roles like cruise missile strikes. Another article mentions Global Hawk overflight to do BDA on the 112 tomahawk strike.
I'm skeptical that US aircraft won't ultimately become involved. Does anyone think that the US/NATO might start operating armed UAV over Libya like the MQ-9? Or would they be too vulnerable to AAA/SA-7?
Adrian
There aren't any Reapers in the theater, and it's unlikely any would be diverted from other theaters. There's a whole wing of Global Hawks at Sigonella though. Gotta use them for something.
As for the cruise missiles, the US just pretty much lobbed off about one-third of the CM arsenal they have in-theater. Also, btw, local radio here in Germany claimed earlier that "British ships" fired missiles too. Any British subs down there?
As for the cruise missiles, the US just pretty much lobbed off about one-third of the CM arsenal they have in-theater. Also, btw, local radio here in Germany claimed earlier that "British ships" fired missiles too. Any British subs down there?
The Pentagon stated that British subs participated in the Tomahawk offensive.
there is a tafalgar class in the area, not sure which one tho