WW II: What if Japan attacked the west coast?

[Australian.Jack]

I've wondered from time to time what would of happened if the Japanese had after bombing Pearl Harbor their forces had turned east and attacked the west coast. I'm saying that their main objective was to attacked the United States mainland and they had prepared accordingly.

Its like Hitler's invasion of France, both Germany and Japan did not beleive their attacks would be successful and thus did not prepare adequately for (in Hitler's case) Operation Sea Lion and in Japan's case 1.) the invasion of Pearl Harbor, and 2.) A possible invasion of the mainland.

 

[GermanHerman]

the r two nations.. they attacked us ( US ) unpredicted and these people were from Asia--- japs and afghan at the time of ww2 USSR was also in stress study why ? and predict china? dear sir post what ever u think or come in ur mind and those perfect people will correct u.

My gosh, this forum deserves better than this...
I think every adult beeing on this planet understands the very basic concept of respect so please show some.

Its like Hitler's invasion of France, both Germany and Japan did not beleive their attacks would be successful and thus did not prepare adequately for (in Hitler's case) Operation Sea Lion and in Japan's case 1.) the invasion of Pearl Harbor, and 2.) A possible invasion of the mainland.

I would actualy suggest you to go and read a threat before posting something just for fun.
Actualy you only needed to read the first response, written by ananda, to understand how wrong your statement about PH was.
But nope, you chose to disrespect him (her?) and anyone else who contributed in this discussion and just throw in some worthless crab.

Well done mate!

 

[ltdanjuly10]

Perhaps a naval strike on the west coast would a realistic alternative. a few battleships and a couple of aircraft carriers could do a lot of damage for a few days depending on the naval and air forces the us had in the area. Maybe a raid or two by naval infantry. The damage inflicted would be repaired rather quickly but the psychological effects might be the biggest payoff, presuming it didn't reinforce our patriotic zeal with xenophobic rage instead.

Better Yet. Attack Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th but also destroy the locks at the Panama Canal, or maybe just catch the carriers at a later date. or raid Hawaii to destroy the POL supplies, Submarine facility's and all of the ship repair equipment. All seem perfectly within IJN capability and would have at the least prolonged the war and maybe of produced a more favorable peace. But of coarse they didn't do it, expecting a short war and all.

A better question perhaps would be, what if the Japan had instead aligned itself with the western powers out of its fear of Bolshevism back when the Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression Pact still held? perhaps fodder for another thread.

 

[UK_Army]

Personally i think that the Japanese lacked the means to achieve this and they knew that .Someone posted earlier that Yamamoto's plan to attack Pearl Harbor was actually a gample , which is correct.
But i kept on thinking what would have happened if the Japanese had delayed their attack say, two or three years?Would their industry had sufficient growth to produce enough LCT's and strategic bombers for example, capable to use for an invasion to the US?

People should not be alarmed especially the western part. As we all know...USA has always been prepared to war.

 

[Wolven0ne]

fyi:

The Japanese did attack the West Coast of the US

They had plans to send in mini-subs to San Francisco like they did in Pearl Harbor. Also, they had "bomb baloon" type things which would land on US soil before blowing up, but the baloons only caused one single casualty

 

[GunSafe]

There would have been more bloodshed if they did so.

 

[Beatmaster]

Personally i believe that if japan would have invaded the US that it would be a very tough job for the US to kick them back out.
Keep in mind that the US was back at that day a sleeping giant who first needed a few good slaps to the face before the war engine would go into action.
The Japanese where pretty much ready for anything, having one of the biggest armies, and the one of the biggest naval fleet around.
So in regards to the armed forces of Japan we can conclude that they where putting up a hell of a fight.
Not to mention their will and believe to die for their emperor which was remarkable as the Japanese armed forces did proof to be very tough and cunning.
Back in that time cultural differences between east and west where a major advantage for the Japanese because the west was not custom to their believe, spirit and kamikaze actions which amazed even the most hardcore soldier of that time.
So combining their ruthless and fearsome way of fighting together with their believes and will to die for their nation did make them a really serious opponent.

As i said if Japan would have invaded the US mainland directly then they would penetrate deep into the US before the US armed forces could really mount a coordinated counter attack.
Another issue would have been that the Japanese armed forces would probably deport the US civilians and capture military bases and harbors which would be a major boost to them and a very heavy blow to the US.

As history shows us there where one or to generals who actually did draw up a plan to strike the west coast directly but japan did not have any intention to do so.
As their agenda was aimed at different objectives. Also worthy of mentioning is that Japan did have the manpower and the capabilities to fight the US head-on however due the war with China and other fronts they where in over their heads, another issue would be the insane amount of resources- logistic's needed to pull of such a large scale campaign which the Japanese simply did not have keep in mind its a huge distance to strike the west coast head-on.
Some historian suggest in books that if the Japanese armed forces would have waited and would loot the resources from the already occupied regions in China and Dutch Indies then they would been in a much better shape if they would plan a serious campaign against the west coast.
The Japanese leaders claimed to have 18 months of oil reserves left, which where by far not enough to attack the US mainland.
The moment Japan did attack the British and Dutch colonies they knew that war with the US was a near fact.
The Japanese managed to push the Chinese back and even did stop Russia from playing a vital role in that war.
Theoretical the Japanese lost the battle against the Russians but it did ensure that the Russians would not intervene on a mass scale against the Japanese at least not on a short notice.
My point is that if Japan would focus pure and alone on China then they would have beaten China which would grant them the resources and production to sustain a longterm campaign against the US mainland knowing that the US would be very busy with Hitler in Europa as has been outlined by some historians.
Side note: The Japanese knew from the start that they could never win this war from the very start due the fact that they lacked resources and logistic's which hammered down the Japanese capability to make war. And still they did fight for every inch and they lasted longer then anyone could have foreseen, imagin the Japanese war machine without the limits and restrictions (Resource wise) then it would be a completely different story.
Their best moment to ever strike the US mainland would be the moment they would have defeated China as their only enemy and catching the US totally off guard.
But thats just speculation and big BS.
The Japanese did what they did and they did put up a really serious fight which again is a compliment to their will power and and spirit (with all respect to the many victims that died during this war)

The horror, pain, suffering and grief in this war was unmatched and shocking where human kind experienced its darkest hours and at the same time its finest hour.
Looking back at the events in the past should realize us all that mankind's true colors where shown in that war both in a good and evil way.

Cheers

 

[Corsair96]

Personally i believe that if japan would have invaded the US that it would be a very tough job for the US to kick them back out.
Keep in mind that the US was back at that day a sleeping giant who first needed a few good slaps to the face before the war engine would go into action.

Cheers

Really? They would also have to take out all of the Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, India and The Hawian Islands before they had even had a chance at securing the US mainland. I dont know when was the last time you looked at the Geography of the US but it is a huge country, and having to ship across all the supplies you would need to beat it all the way over the pacific ocean is simply unstoppable. Could Japan take over all of the small islands between them and the US and still have the troops and supplies to fight the American army on the mainland with the factories at their backs, impossible. Any fleet like that was going to draw every ship, submarine and plane in the pacific ocean to go and bomb the hell out of it. Strategically impossible.

 

[Beatmaster]

Really? They would also have to take out all of the Phillipines, Australia, New Zealand, India and The Hawian Islands before they had even had a chance at securing the US mainland. I dont know when was the last time you looked at the Geography of the US but it is a huge country, and having to ship across all the supplies you would need to beat it all the way over the pacific ocean is simply unstoppable. Could Japan take over all of the small islands between them and the US and still have the troops and supplies to fight the American army on the mainland with the factories at their backs, impossible. Any fleet like that was going to draw every ship, submarine and plane in the pacific ocean to go and bomb the hell out of it. Strategically impossible.

Who said they would secure the whole US?
I said IF they would have invaded the US mainland which means partly as iam aware of the very huge distances.
I also said that they only could do this IF they did have enough resources and IF they only would have attacked China.
You also seem to forget the fact that at the beginning of the war the US was nowhere near the point to even match the Japanese in strength and size.
When the US took the war to the Japanese they where outmatched 3 to 1 according to on-line sources.
Eventually the US took the overhand and they could effective push back the Japanese forces.
This was made possible due the fact that the US enjoyed the comfort of being thousands of miles away knowing that their mainland and production was kinda save.
So please read back what i have said and what others did say in the topic.
Its obvious that Japan would not have the resources and logistic's needed to undertake such a large scale campaign .
But as Historians have been pointing out IF japan would have the resources and the logistic's then they would be perfectly capable of penetrating the US mainland knowing that the US where not even close to be ready and fightback the Japanese forces which was a simple fact.
The moment the war started between Japan and the US the Japanese owned the skies, the sea and the land in terms of military, i mean look how the Japanese forces did attack China and all those other nations and regions.
No-one was powerful enough to even stop the Japanese at that time.
After the US declared war upon Japan things turned into flavor of the US but this took nearly a year.

The real problem the Japanese naval forces encountered was the fact that the US air carriers where still alive, but as the battle of midway pointed out is that the Japanese assembled the biggest naval fleet ever to be put together in human history, over 200 battleships. that was after nearly a year and the US did stop that attack mainly due the fact that the US massive production capabilities did reverse the dmg in pearl harbor by mass producing planes and ships, so imagine what would happen if the Japanese would hit the US mainland with that enormous fleet.
Sure the US would be able to sink and destroy some of it.....but the US was nowhere near the point to counter such an attack.
Anyway my point here is that we are talking theoretical so this whole scenario is BS.
But again as several posters and historians have been pointed out army, naval and air wise the Japanese would be perfectly able to seriously hit the US west coast, knowing that the US would be caught "sleeping"
Could the win that war? in that scenario? It remains to be seen and we will never know but probably not.
But they would certainly create havoc thats for sure.
Its all about resources and logistic's which japan did not have (at least not enough).
You said Strategically impossible.....its not the US proved that later on when they shipped thousands and thousands of soldiers to the UK and Europa.
The US did have enough resources 100 times or even a thousand times more then the Japanese ever would have.
And outproduced japan and any other nation by a 100 times which gave the US the strength and the options do undertake a multi front and long run campaign.

If Japan would have focused on China (because China was ready to fall and surrender) and they would put that work force into action drawing every piece of resources into this war......then iam asking you again, are you really sure that the Japanese could NEVER make it to the US mainland?
Keep in mind many Historians have pointed out that: The Japanese armed forces where very able to do so the only thing they lacked was supplies.

Cheers

 

[mctarmac]

The first reply to this thread really nailed it, the rest, well what can I say, some very strange opinions!

As has been said, there would be no point/completely impossible to invade CONUS at the time or at any other time. Those that suggest otherwise are too used to looking at the globe online. Distances of 10,000 Km to the shore and 4,000 km to the inland are no laughing matter and are quite simply insurmountable.

To argue that "if Japan had the logistics it was possible" is quite frankly absurd. You may as well say that with 1 million invincible soldiers, victory would be assured... Japan didn't have the logistical capability at the time, thats the whole point. Any other concept is just fantasizing. Japan, quite simply, was a welter weight country versus a heavy weight. I mean really, Yamamoto was already afraid the industrial might of the USA would crush Japan before they could secure their goals, and you think the Japanese would want to bring that fight to the Americans doorstep? Ludicrous!

Putting aside all the realistic objections and supposing the Japanese did land on the American coast, were talking vast open expanses of desert. No jungle for you to hide in, and last I checked the Japanese Army was not a specialist in open terrain large armored formation war fighting.

I try to envision such a scenario to critique it for you, but in all honesty the whole idea is just too laughable (supplies, replenishment, lines of communication, securing air and sea control up to the coast.)

You brag of the Japanese securing Hong Kong and Singapore, two CITY STATES, and even then only accomplished under the cowardly guise of no declaration of war. The fact is all you had going for you was surprise and momentum. While no one has mentioned Australia, lest we forget you were stopped at Kakoda with what forces you had, so somehow you could have put more towards the Pacific and achieved even more than what you did?

Quite frankly your language "white elephants" and what not is insulting and showcases exactly what side of the war you came out on. You may heap praise on the devotion and fanaticism of the Japanese, but as history tells us, an adaptive innovative and fee people create fantastic warriors. Warriors that every time will trample lock step suicidal devotion and rote learning.

 

[idiana]

If Japan attacked west coast at Vladivostok, i think USSR have no chance to hold Moscow. They would fall into German rule, or the war would last longer than the fact.

The USSR have to thank a American intelligent agent in Tokyo that reported back of non-Japan intrusion of west coast. Unfortunately he was then accused and executed in Tokyo 1944.

 

[CBS]

Yamamoto even stated that attacking the US would be a blunder for many people there owned rifles and they ( The Japanese ) would have their hands full. A paraphase mind you. He knew the people and their mind set.....' We have only awakened a sleeping giant' ...after Pearl became a household word. Yes, they would have caught us off guard but then all heck would have arisen and the mighty Japanese would have suffered their first real defeat in centuries right here in America. They did attack San Diego via a submarine firing into town and the Great Northwest with baloon bombs but neither was much of an impact other than people drew closer together ! They were doomed and many knew it early on but the Ninja Pride would not allow them to settle for a peace treaty ! What a shame for they are really good people...no, not their Army & Navy !

SF........>Chuck

 

[DesertFox1A]

More than 1 casualty on west coast

fyi:


They had plans to send in mini-subs to San Francisco like they did in Pearl Harbor. Also, they had "bomb baloon" type things which would land on US soil before blowing up, but the baloons only caused one single casualty

"On September 9, 1942, the Japanese submarine I-25 a B1 type sub Launched a single, single engine Yokosuki E14Ys, "Glen", float equipped observation and light attack aircraft armed with two incendiary bombs" the target was the forest inland from Brookings, Oregon. This attack was observed by a fire tower watchman, Keith V Johnson, a forestry student from Nebraska, who reported the sighting and that the planes had dropped two bombs then circled the spot before flying back out to sea. The bombs initially started small fires but they went out because of the coast fog and mist and the heavy rains that made the forest too wet to burn.

"It is commonly thought the United States has never been attacked on our own soil in war time. After viewing these videos it appears that is not quite correct. This video, shown in two parts describes the technology used by the Japanese to attach bombs to balloons and float them across the Pacific Ocean to our west coast. Between 1942 and 1945 the Japanese launched 9,000 balloon bombs and they fell all the way from Alaska to the Mexican border." Do a search for "Japanese bomb Oregon in 1942"


"Most of the balloons carried 4 incendiary bombs, 1 anti-personnel and a flash bomb to destroy the balloon. The only reported casualties were six deaths in Lakeview, Oregon when picnicking children picked up a balloon and it detonated." I believe the actual sites was nearer to Bly than it was to Lakeview

If you do a search for "Japanese bomb Oregon in 1942" you will find almost 7.5 million results, but the first page has the best articles on the shelling and bombings of Oregon.

The Japanese acquired a couple of the German jets and improved on them they had the Swallow (ME-262), the Comet (ME-163) and the Salamander (HE-162). If they could have held out until 1946 or even 47 they may have had these in numbers to replace their piston engine fighter and attack aircraft, both as land based and carrier based aircraft.

Going over to the East coast, "Operation Pastorius was a failed German plan for sabotage inside the United States during World War II. The operation was staged in June 1942 and was to be directed against strategic American economic targets. The operation was named by Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, chief of the German Abwehr, for Francis Daniel Pastorius, the leader of the first organized settlement of Germans in America." Taken from Wikipedia page on Operation Pastorius. As far as I can find no Americans were killed during these missions, See also Operation Elster (Magpie) which took place on November 30, 1944. Both articles are a good read, to find them do a search for them by their names. There may be other articles about these failed missions but I did not pursue them any further.

Hope you find this information of interest and that you look into the articles that I have recommended.

Shelly Ann, LPN/ret, HM2(FMF)/USN, Sgt/USAR, ACM/olc

 

[DesertFox1A]

Attack on west coast

Then Drive Foward onto the Eastern Seaboard,they would need alot better tanks,and alot of troops and rescources.It would have been a hard almost impossible struggle because the Japanese were lacking in rescources especially fuel and metals.

I think Highly Unlikely.

A lot of you do not give credit to the veterans of WW I or the sportsmen, construction workers and loggers of the Pacific Northwest (PNW) and their ability to stand against an invading army. You have remember that almost every household in the west had firearms. The loggers and construct workers had access to heavy equipment and explosives. There was a chance that the West Coast could have been held by the National Guard and the citizens until the regular military could be brought in from the East Coast bases. After the war was over and MI people were questioning some of the Japanese flag officers, one was attributed as saying that "they were afraid that they would meet a rifle behind every blade of grass" as to the reasoning for not invading the US mainland.

As for supplies, they could have taken what was needed from the areas that they held. There were oil fields and refineries as well as agriculture in the western states that the Japanese could have taken advantage of, as they secured the area.

This a subject that was tossed around in our home, back when I was in school. My dad was a Pearl Harbor Survivor and a Navy veteran of the Pacific Campaign. So we could sit around and talk about the war. I would sit at his knee and listen to his tales of the war.

When you discuss this topic, don't forget about the people who lived in the PNW. Don't forget the vets of WW I or even veterans of the Mexican incursion in the Southwest in the early 1900's, they may have been older but there were many of them and if nothing else they could help train the younger people to help hold off the invaders, if they could not fight themselves. All of this info is out there you just have to look for it, that is if you are a serious history buff.

As-salaamu 'alaikum,

Shelly Ann, LPN/ret,
Et secundum diversitatem unitatis pro scientiam.
HM2c(FMF)/USN, Sgt/USAR, ACM/olc, CWVet, VNeVet, GWVet, DAV/VFW Life Member

 

[sark]

I've wondered from time to time what would of happened if the Japanese had after bombing Pearl Harbor their forces had turned east and attacked the west coast. I'm saying that their main objective was to attacked the United States mainland and they had prepared accordingly.

..they would need to refuel and rearm.....it's not that easy ....

How would the IJN have transported enough troops to the US west coast to do that? How could they have been supplied? What would be the purpose of such an attack?

..if the OP is talking about landing troops on the west coast--that would've been an impossibility --they didn't have the shipping/etc for it......they would need oilers/oil/etc .....they barely had enough oil/etc do an all out attack on Guadalcanal--which was much closer to their bases

Elwood CA



Japanese subs also shelled the oil fields off of Elwood CA by Santa Barbra.

subs cannot do much damage

 

[Feanor]

Posts merged. Please don't spam a thread with multiple short messages. Use the edit button.