Russian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Preceptor]

[Mod Edit: Text deleted. Trolling in this manner is just childish.]

A few points which are very important to consider. People, Defence Professionals included, will indeed talk. However, the more restricted/non-public the information is, the more circumspect the talk will typically be. This is one of the reasons why classified things like the maximum detection range of a particular system would not be mentioned. General trends are however, usually fair game. This means that construction or build trends which can impact submarine performance, can and do get discussed, particularly amongst and between the relevant Professionals at events like various UDT conferences. This can and does then trickle down to more public discussion. Again, the discussion might not include specific details outside of a classified environment, but public comments from someone in a position to have non-public information certainly need to be considered carefully.

And "No," someone does not need to be a Russian nuclear submarine engineer to anything other than wild guesses as to what a Russian sub can do. There are a number of non-Russian organizations and agencies which spend considerable time and effort to determine what such capabilities might be, and then develop methods of containing or countering such capabilities.
-Preceptor

 

[Bonza]

Russia Doubles Funding For Military Rearmament

Reading your posts in most forums, your agenda and prejudice is pretty clear too. If you have trouble believing that, so be it. The re-armament is speeding up, big time. Nothing out-of-the-blue for a military so huge as Russia's.

Stop using accusations of agendas and prejudice as surrogates for actual discussion. If you're not going to debate at an adult level, don't post.

 

[Preceptor]

[Mod Edit: Text deleted. Trolling in this manner is just childish.]

Last time. Organizations and agencies which would be interested in equipment of Russian origin are NOT usually found within the US, they are found worldwide. In addition to think tanks, organizations interested in such equipment also include various defence contractors and industries. As such, the various national defence industrial bases, along with their respective governmental agencies and military defence forces pay attention to who is producing what, and what the known and expected capabilities are of various pieces of equipment, aircraft, ships, submarines, etc. There is also discussion amongst and between the various named groups regarding same. Contrary to what was mentioned above, this discussion has NOT been just praise for the level of engineering or the quality of construction, nor has it been just concern above the potential threat such construction or engineering might present. Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, the assertion has been made, by you... that suggesting that Severodvinsk is somehow gimp in performance of any sort from low-res internet images is nothing but ludicrous! with the implication that such material is the source material for another poster having commented to the effect that Russian subs are not always all that quiet. Given that the poster's background and expertise is known, and demonstrated through their posting history, and that it is not 'just' drawn from examining low-res images off the internet such implications are not appreciated. Therefore, stop attempting to imply something about another poster which is not the case. Failure to heed this will result in action being taken. Finally, read the forum rules throughly before posting again as the content and manner of engagement needs to change.
-Preceptor

 

[AegisFC]

Good question ????
Just to look at it I would say some form of mortar system, or depth charge launcher, I know back in the 50's and 60's there used to be Anti Submarine Mortars used by the British. Or maybe some form of Chaff Launcher ?? Will do some research to try and find out unless someone on here can supply a difinitive answer in the mean time

OK found it ! It is as I suspected, a Decoy system here is a link
PK-2 SHIPBORNE DECOY DISPENSING SYSTEM | Russian Arms, Military Technology, Analysis of Russia's Military Forces

Thanks for finding that, very interesting.

 

[Wall83]

The Russian Defence ministry seems to feel that the construction time for the new Admiral Sergey Gorshkov class frigate is taking to long. Now they have signed a contract with the Yantar shipyard in Kaliningrad to build 3 ships of the Talwar class frigate to the russian navy.

Russia's Black Sea Fleet - Top of the agenda again | Features & Opinion | RIA Novosti
Kaliningrad shipyard to build three frigates for Russian Navy | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[Feanor]

No surprise. Plans to beef up the BSF have been in the works for a while. There were also promises of new subs. We'll see what comes of it.

 

[Wall83]

Its always alot of orders and construction of ships for the russian navy, but it dont often results in actually ships. It takes far to from ordering the vessels untill they arrive in the navy.

Right know on order or in construction (just thinking out loud).

2 Borei class SSBN nuclear submarines, laid down in 2004, 2006. (+1 in sea trial)

2 Yasen class SSN nuclear attack submarines, laid down in 1993?, 2009.

1 Kilo class SK attack submarine, laid down in 2010.

3 Lada class SK attack submarine, laid down in 2005, 2006, 2006.

2 Oscar II SSGN nuclar submarines, laid down in 1992, 1993 (probably never going to be finished)

1 Ivan gren class landing ship, laid down in 2004

2 ADMIRAL GORSHKOV frigate class, laid down in 2006, 2009

3 Neustrashimy class frigates, laid down in 2005, 2006, 2006

2 Buyan class corvettes, laid down in 2005, 2006

and now 3 Talwar/krivak IV class frigats on order.

Also add possible 2-4 large helicopter carriers (Mistral)

 

[Feanor]

Also under construction is a modified Buyan class, the Grad Sviyazhsk corvette, for the Caspian flotilla. (total 5 planned) and two modified Gepard class (Dagestan and Burevestnik). Also apparently as many as 4 Stereguschiy class corgettes have been laid down.

Completed ships since 2000 include:

2 Neustrashimiy class frigates (Neustrashimiy and Yaroslav Mudriy (BF)
1 Borei class in sea trials (NF)
1 Lada class in sea trials (BF)
1 Buyan class corvette, the Asktrakhan (CF)
1 Gepard class frigate (CF)
1 Natya I modified minesweeper (BSF)
1 Stereguschiy class corvette, (BF)
1 Akula class sub. the Gepard (Schuka-B)

 

[KiwiRob]

Also apparently as many as 4 Stereguschiy class corgettes have been laid down.

I can confirm as I've had orders for lights placed for 3 ships, we have already delivered for 3 vessels, I have also been told that total numbers for this class will be approx 20-25 units, it also looks like a second production line will be open for them at Amur.

 

[Feanor]

Fascinating. What else have you delivered components for?

 

[Sandhi Yudha]

So...this is the situation/status of the surface vessels?
1 Ivan Gren class landing ship Proyekt 11711(120m): under construction
, laid down in 2004

2 ADMIRAL GORSHKOV frigate class Proyekt 22350 (132m): under construction
laid down in 2006, 2009

3 Neustrashimy class frigates Proyekt 1154 (130m): 2 delivered, 1 stored
laid down in 2005, 2006, 2006

1 Stereguschiy class corvette Proyekt 20380 (104,5m): 1 delivered, 3 u/c, 16 on order

3 Gepard frigates Proyekt 11661 (102m): 1 delivered, 2 u/c
the Albatross (renamed to Dagestan) and the Burevestnik (Storm Petrel) are under construction.

2 Buyan class corvettes proyekt 21630: 1 delivered, 1 u/c
, laid down in 2005, 2006

3 Talwar/krivak IV proyekt 11356 class frigates on order.

 

[KiwiRob]

Fascinating. What else have you delivered components for?

We have delivered to most of the commercial vessels built in Russia over the past 10 years, at the moment I'm trying to get on board our searchlights for the Russian Navy, we were selected at the supplier of searchlights recently for the Russian Border Guard. Other navy projects in Europe are French FREMM, the entire Bundsmarine, most Dutch naval vessels, came second in the CVF tender, grrr worked hard on that one, pissed we lost. We're the largest supplier of marine lighting in Europe.

 

[Feanor]

We have delivered to most of the commercial vessels built in Russia over the past 10 years, at the moment I'm trying to get on board our searchlights for the Russian Navy, we were selected at the supplier of searchlights recently for the Russian Border Guard. Other navy projects in Europe are French FREMM, the entire Bundsmarine, most Dutch naval vessels, came second in the CVF tender, grrr worked hard on that one, pissed we lost. We're the largest supplier of marine lighting in Europe.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the name of your company?

 

[JoeMcFriday]

If you don't mind me asking, what is the name of your company?

Feanor,
Not attempting to answer for Kiwirob but It sounds like Glamox International to my aging deductive powers
Just a guess to fill in the time,
Cheers,
Mac

 

[KiwiRob]

Well done Joe, have you purchased off us or used our products?

 

[Feanor]

Feanor,
Not attempting to answer for Kiwirob but It sounds like Glamox International to my aging deductive powers
Just a guess to fill in the time,
Cheers,
Mac

Actually he answered in pms.

 

[Wall83]

The Admiral Sergei Gorshkov will after all be floated out on friday.

Russia's new-generation frigate to be floated out on Friday | Defense | RIA Novosti

 

[Feanor]

It looks like an official closed tender was declared for the Mistral, with specific negotiations to resume after a decision is made. From Russian press it seems like the decision is still up in the air, but I have the distinct feeling that the Mistral is the favorite, with the others invited for formalities sake.

 

[KiwiRob]

According to the New Ships report I get each week it would appear that the sale of Mistral to Russia is all but complete, it's now just a case of deciding how many will be built and where. I suspect the first will be built in France, followed by 3 more to be built in Russia. The only problem I foresee is where are the Russian ships are going to be built. From my point of view Admiralty is probably the best option, although I think they will do something silly and allocate them to Sevmarsh.

It's also been confirmed that 3 x Project 11356 Frigates will be built at Yantar Shipyard in Kaliningrad.

 

[Feanor]

That's interesting. It may be that the tender is a smoke screen for the purchase, so appease those in the administration and MoD who want to see more competitive practices in selecting military equipment for Russia. The tender is indeed extremely rushed, with proposals to be submitted by Nov. 4th, and a winner to be decided in December, with a contract to be signed before the end of the year. Admiralty, Yantar, Severnaya Verf, and Baltiyskiy Zavod are all planning to participate with no word on Sevmash. I suspect Sevmash will be too busy with the Kuznetsov refit for the next few years to participate in Mistral.

There's also been an announcement that France will place no restrictions on the technology transfer with the Mistral purchase.