WW II: What if Japan attacked the west coast?

[PBAngler]

Elwood CA

Japan did attack the west coast with firebombs attached to ballons hoping to set the forests on fire, but they were very unsuccessful and only burnt down one house

Japanese subs also shelled the oil fields off of Elwood CA by Santa Barbra.

 

[wtsimpson7]

It's possible that if they had planned a massive follow-up land invasion, they might've actually been able to conquer some islands (Niihau, Kauai, Oahu, maybe more). A land invasion of these islands would've put Japanese forces right at our doorstep. It's a scary thought, and I'm not entirely sure why they didn't give it a go before the element of surprise was completely lost.

 

[Thiel]

It's possible that if they had planned a massive follow-up land invasion, they might've actually been able to conquer some islands (Niihau, Kauai, Honolulu, maybe more). A land invasion of these islands would've put Japanese forces right at our doorstep. It's a scary thought, and I'm not entirely sure why they didn't give it a go before the element of surprise was completely lost.

They didn't have the ships or the men to do it. Remember, large parts of their army was busy with either invading or digging in on various islands throughout the pacific or fighting in China, and their merchant marine was busy keeping them supplied.

 

[wtsimpson7]

They didn't have the ships or the men to do it. Remember, large parts of their army was busy with either invading or digging in on various islands throughout the pacific or fighting in China, and their merchant marine was busy keeping them supplied.

I know it's very far-fetched, especially with the occupation of Manchuria, but If they somehow were able to assemble an invasion force, It would've been a nightmare.

 

[DIREWOLF75]

They didn't have the ships or the men to do it. Remember, large parts of their army was busy with either invading or digging in on various islands throughout the pacific or fighting in China, and their merchant marine was busy keeping them supplied.

Well the DID have the ability, but it would have meant delaying the attacks on Philippines and the important East Indies.

Personally, I can come up with two scenarios where attack the West Coast would benefit Japan.
First off, and arguably the least likely, they could bomb the major industrial centres and harbours, taking away much of the US's construction capability and maybe more important in the early stages of the Pacific War, their refit capabilities.

That would have required a freakingly HUGE air campaign, Japan simply didnt have and could never have big enough airforce for it.

Another option was to sneak merchant vessels into WC harbours and sink them in strategic locations. The ships would pose as ships from other countries, in order to circumvent the US-Jap embargoes. They would enter the harbours just before the PH attack, preferably on the day and then scuttle in the immediate aftermath. Assuming it was done right, this could lock up harbours for months.

While i expect this could have worked, i doubt it would be "for months". Weeks yes probably but in the end the wrecks would either be floated away or simply blasted from the spot.

It's possible that if they had planned a massive follow-up land invasion, they might've actually been able to conquer some islands (Niihau, Kauai, Oahu, maybe more). A land invasion of these islands would've put Japanese forces right at our doorstep.

Doorstep? Unless you live on Hawaii, hardly, its a LONG way from the US west coast.
With any serious invasion they would probably have taken all of Hawaii rather quickly, as other clashes early on showed, it took quite a while for the allies to find ways to handle the Japanese shock tactics, which is another reason why this would have been impossible or very hard later in the war but quite realistic early on.

It's a scary thought, and I'm not entirely sure why they didn't give it a go before the element of surprise was completely lost.

East Indies oil was considered extremely more important combined with Japan aiming for a settled peacetreaty with USA as quickly as possible, meaning that actually taking any US held places beyond their "homesphere" was seen as far too provocative.
Quite stupid yes, and there were many opposing such though but they were overruled by those in power. And of course, its not like the Japanese were alone in such delusions. USA expected the war against the "obviously inferior japs" to be over in 6 months because clearly those primitive barbarians that couldnt even build their own modern ships and planes could never be more than a short term threat or fight on even terms...
And so on in different ways for USSR, UK and France who all had their own surprisingly stupid delusions about the coming war.

 

[moahunter]

Well the DID have the ability, but it would have meant delaying the attacks on Philippines and the important East Indies.

No they didn't, the supply lines would have been too long, and the American military was far better trained than the Chinese (as a comparison). Don't forget the U.S. always had the option to not deploy troops to the European theater if there was ever any real threat to the homeland (beyond Hawai).

It was a mistake to not invade Hawai after Pearl Harbour. That would have perhaps extended the war due to the logistics / supply nightmare it would have caused the U.S. I am not sure though, as the Atomic bomb ended up being the game change anyway.

 

[Saif1]

if America didnt have nuked on 2 cities of Japan then the Japan would be victorious

sorry for my English

 

[Thiel]

if America didnt have nuked on 2 cities of Japan then the Japan would be victorious

sorry for my English

Ah, no.
By the time the US dropped the bombs, Japans army had been shredded, their airforce beaten to a pulp and their navy was pretty much non-existent. On top of that, the US was bombing the crap out of every piece of industry they could find and famine was widespread.
In essence, Japan had no means to mount an attack at all.

 

[swerve]

if America didnt have nuked on 2 cities of Japan then the Japan would be victorious

sorry for my English

My partners mother remembers the last months of the war in Japan. The constant air-raid alarms, the bombing raids, the fires . . . .

She lived in a smallish port, with no military industry. The chief local businesses were fishing & pearl diving, but even so, it was bombed, & 40% of the town was destroyed. The USAAF was running out of industrial cities to bomb.

If nobody had invaded, there would have been mass starvation that winter. There were no food imports, because of the blockade, & most of the Japanese merchant fleet having been sunk. There was no fuel to transport what food there was in Japan from the countryside to towns, the railways were hardly working because of bombing & fuel shortages, there was no fuel for heating, millions were homeless. Where factories still existed, & could get materials, their workers were working at greatly reduced efficiency because of hunger.

Win?

 

[ltdanjuly10]

if America didnt have nuked on 2 cities of Japan then the Japan would be victorious

sorry for my English

If America had failed to nuke Japan they would have been forced to invade. This would have resulted in massive US causualtys but an ultimate victory. There would have been even more terrible Japanese causualtys than those that were lost with the A-bombings.

Had Russia force a landing from the North things would have been worse (Think of what happened to the German Civilians in The Russian Zone from 1945-1989) a slit Japan might have even been sucked into the Korean Conflict.

As for Japan invadeing the US, Just imagin that instead of FDR the US had an isolationist president and Europe fell. then say that about 1960 the Germans invade the US with Japanese help. That should make you senario at least a little more possible.

 

[idiana]

great idea !
but i think i´t is impossible , Japan was not great in U-boats attack

 

[Tactics Master]

Its just impossible there is only one factor that would of made it possible..... The ATOMIC BOMB , but that never happened!

 

[huskerguy7]

I don't think it would've happened. Plus, after Dec 7, the DoD did a good job at setting up a civilian/reserve anti-air defense on the west coast.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

It wasn’t possible to do so without securing a port in the central pacific. The lines of communication were just far too long and the size of the land forces required were far too large, especially considering the bulk of Japanese land formations were committed in mainland China. To put it simply you can’t sustain a multi core campaign with sea lines of communication 8,000km long with significant enemy naval assets in theatre and no feasible way to gain air superiority over the beachhead.

Invading Australia in 1942 would have been more feasible and the Japanese high command deemed that beyond their capability. Invading CONUS while 20+ divisions were fighting in China??? No way.

 

[A.Mookerjee]

I think there's already another thread discussing the potential on what the Japanese will or can do in the opening of WW2. In short, the Japanese aimed was for Raw Materials in Malaya and Dutch East Indies.
Attacking and pacifying Pacific Fleet only to eliminate potential immediate oppsing fleet when the rest of their fleet went south for conquering South East Asia at same time Nagumo's task force attacking Pearl HArbour.

Japanese did not have much supply, and Yamamoto gammble all the resources on one way startegy that has to work simultanously.
On Tactical side it work since Nagomo's manage to subdue the Pacific Fleet for some time, and open the rest of the fleet to plunder SEA with limited opposition.

On strategic grand it does not work, since all the US aircraft carriers still save, thus enable US Pacific Fleet to ammount substantive opposition wiithin few months, comparred the Yamamoto plan that aimed to pacified the US fleet for at least a year.

Japanese knows that they can't match US industrial out put and productivity, thus was not planning to attack or invade US continental land, since it's beyond their capabilities.
Afterall, the plan is for a year of SEA and western Pacific Conquest, and after that facing the US in diplomatic table to divide pacific for US and Japan.

It was impossible. The attack on Pearl Harbour was a very difficult operation, because the Aircraft Carriers did not have the fuel to get closer to Pearl Harbour, because of many reasons, mainly because they did not want the United States to suspect the impending attack. I believe, Grand Admiral Yamamoto made a fatal error in the battle of Midway. He used the same tactics which he did for Pearl harbour. He used the tactics in the Battle of Midway, which one would use when attacking targets with planes, over great distances. Perhaps, he had improved on the tactics which he had used on Pearl Harbour, but they were the wrong tactics. Before the operation of Midway, he had expected a naval war between aircraft carriers, over long nautical distances, which was a fatal folly.

 

[A.Mookerjee]

Kido Butai, the strike force of the Imperial Japanese Navy, had not a chance in Infinity to reach the east coast of America, forget the west coast. They reached the distance that they did, to Pearl Harbour with great care, and difficuilty.

 

[gforce]

If you watched the old WW2 movie "Tora! Tora! Tora!"... it showed there that the Japanese Imperial Navy Admiral decided to return to Japan after a successful attack in Pearl Harbor because there will no longer be the element of surprise if they decide to push through in attacking the U.S. mainland. They also feared about the whereabouts of the missing aircraft carriers in Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese Imperial Forces however sent out thousands of balloon bombs to the U.S. mainland but caused minor damage - killed 6 people in Oregon.

My reference for the 2nd paragraph is: [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_balloon"]Fire balloon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Japanese_fire_balloon_moffet.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Japanese_fire_balloon_moffet.jpg/220px-Japanese_fire_balloon_moffet.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/2/23/Japanese_fire_balloon_moffet.jpg/220px-Japanese_fire_balloon_moffet.jpg[/ame]

 

[AMERICANMAN]

I think that the US would have been caught off guard. The Japanese would have captured cities on the west coast and advanced into the rural areas. By then, the US Military would have been fighting them slowly back to the West coast. Eventually the USA would beat them back to the sea but the Japanese were known for holding out longer than any other country.

A real unknowen would have been what the average american would do,, 80 million americans own guns I have about a dozen and 1000 rounds of ammunition, my brother has about 30 and last time I help him move the ammunition we had to use a dolly, an we dont even have any one to worry about. And when you get right down to it, americans like a good fight. I think the Japnese would have been in for a nasty suprise if they had invaded the USA..

 

[Thiel]

A real unknowen would have been what the average american would do,, 80 million americans own guns I have about a dozen and 1000 rounds of ammunition, my brother has about 30 and last time I help him move the ammunition we had to use a dolly, an we dont even have any one to worry about. And when you get right down to it, americans like a good fight. I think the Japnese would have been in for a nasty suprise if they had invaded the USA..

Wouldn't have made a difference. Every time civilians have gone up against trained (and in this case combat hardened) troops, the civilians have been slaughtered.
A guerilla campaign wouldn't work either since the Japanese had no qualms about massacring innocent civilians.

 

[AMERICANMAN]

Wouldn't have made a difference. Every time civilians have gone up against trained (and in this case combat hardened) troops, the civilians have been slaughtered.
A guerilla campaign wouldn't work either since the Japanese had no qualms about massacring innocent civilians.

Citizens soldiers have a long history in the USA, the british did not do very well. Not many country has the guns the USA does or a people that have been handling guns alll their lives. I think the Japnese would have been in for a nasty susprise.