The best weapon for after the apocalypse

[Jack Johnson]

Ok here is a little game: Some apocalypse happended, civilization is crushed, everyone is on its own, bla bla bla, yadda yadda yadda.

So, you get to choose between every gun in the world to be your weapon during the march through the wastelands. If you choose something out of the "machine-gun"-category you get three spare magazines, with an (assault)rifle or shotgun five magazines, clips, or boxes of shotgun shells (30 shells), and both seven with an (automatic)pistol or submachine-gun.

Which weapon would you choose? You have to think about it; Which is the sturdiest, which the most practical? Which offers the greatest firepower to set yourself apart from the other strugglers?

You may run over some weapons-oil during your voyage, but dont excpect any spare-parts or expert repairkits. You might get some ammunition though, but only widely used civilian calibers like 9mm, .223, etc.

 

[SASWanabe]

i'd Say an AK-47 or HK 416

mainly because theyre designed to be easy to use, need nearly no maintanence aside from the occasional wipe with a rag, AK cartridges (depending on where you are) are'nt very hard to find. and the 5.56 NATO is one of the most wide spread rounds on the planet.

 

[Feanor]

Thread opened and moved to appropriate forum, following moderator discussion. Carry on.

 

[Waylander]

So now that we are in the off- topic subforum I think that a lawnmover is a good choice.

I mean the Zombie hordes are not going to stop on their own. And one may very well ride into battle with it. Gives the whole affair some sort of class...

 

[Jack Johnson]

So now that we are in the off- topic subforum I think that a lawnmover is a good choice.

I mean the Zombie hordes are not going to stop on their own. And one may very well ride into battle with it. Gives the whole affair some sort of class...

Sorry that I choose the wrong sub-forum, but please stay serious. No Zombie-references.

i'd Say an AK-47 or HK 416

mainly because theyre designed to be easy to use, need nearly no maintanence aside from the occasional wipe with a rag, AK cartridges (depending on where you are) are'nt very hard to find. and the 5.56 NATO is one of the most wide spread rounds on the planet.

Are you sure about the AK and 5.56 cartridges? I wouldnt know where to find them, army bases of course, but they arent exactly around every corner.

By the way, my personal decission would be either for some 9mm submachine-gun, or an old fashioned rifle like a M1 Garand or K98K in their respective slightly modernized versions.

 

[Todjaeger]

My vote goes to a titanium spork, Light My Fire makes a pretty good plastic one, I would assume their titanium one would be even better, and here is why.

1. It can be used to stab, cut or stir
2. It is maintenance free
3. It does not require ammunition, fuel or lubricants
4. Is easily concealed due to small size
5. Is multi-use which could important where weight is a concern
6. Would likely be easily overlooked as a potential threat

Aside from the above, there are no real "best" weapons, especially after a complete societal collapse. Firearms are only valueable and effective when they have been reasonably maintained and have ammunition available for them. In short order, once existing stocks have been depleted or no longer commonly available, people would be back to using the three oldest weapons, the rock, stick and knife.

-Cheers

 

[riksavage]

Food, water and protected shelter would be your best weapon, oh and an axe. With the latter you can build and kill.

 

[the road runner]

The ute full of tools.After the apocalypse im going to clean up building houses.
I would have a shovel.So i can dig in and ride it out:
A few pallets of Fully Loaded Man, Cans of lamb stew.Man's gotta eat.
A Led lenser flash light to blind my enemy's
And the ol .308

That will do me

Germany to win in 2010.

 

[Kilo 2-3]

Hmm...It's pretty hard to beat the titanium spork idea...

I'd probably go with some sort of semi-auto hunting rifle, and/or a 12 gauge shotgun. Ideally something that isn't maintenance intensive, isn't too hard to find ammo for, and has reasonable accuracy, stopping power, and reliability. I'd top this off with a sidearm and a hunting/combat knife of some sort or perhaps a sharpened E-tool.

And once the ammo's gone, it might be worth investing a compound bow...

 

[Jack Johnson]

Aside from the above, there are no real "best" weapons, especially after a complete societal collapse. Firearms are only valueable and effective when they have been reasonably maintained and have ammunition available for them.

I beg to differ...Following you argument, from all available weapons "the best" would be those which would need little maintenance (like this new auto shotgun) and / or use a common civilian caliber

 

[sparky & dark]

- my opinion

The "Afterwards" needs to supplement the ending statement.

1. A multi-band communications device that can scan SAT chans and RF chans - ALL freq's
2. A set of IR goggles with range finding and temperature filtering...low maintenance - low power, solar powered when available possible SAT navigation data and "item" ranging if available afterwards
3. A web enabled communications device, laptop/tablet kind of thing solar charged..just in case.
4. Personal protection devices...long and short range capability.
5. Body and stores armor.
6. Mobility enhancement in any form.
7. Optics night day high res perhaps SAT enhanced where available.
8. Simple and complex sensors of a non-particular design.
9. Survival equipment, gold, diamonds and any precious metals i can stash, carry or find.

And number ten?...the real question 'The best weapon for after the apocalypse?"

10. A BIGGER, faster, more tricky and devastating...maybe that just lays in wait...until needed where placed.......triggered by "whatever" weapon. - Atomic, Bio, Techno, physco. :coffee

 

[Feanor]

Titanium e-tool. It doubles as a shovel.

 

[Kilo 2-3]

The "Afterwards" needs to supplement the ending statement.

1. A multi-band communications device that can scan SAT chans and RF chans - ALL freq's
2. A set of IR goggles with range finding and temperature filtering...low maintenance - low power, solar powered when available possible SAT navigation data and "item" ranging if available afterwards
3. A web enabled communications device, laptop/tablet kind of thing solar charged..just in case..
7. Optics night day high res perhaps SAT enhanced where available.

Satellite, internet, and GPS gear is going to go down within a relatively short period after the apocalypse. With the infrastructure needed to maintain, service, and replace them gone, the satellites and etc. needed to make the systems work will eventually quit working, leaving you with a lot of very worthless gear.

Be better off carrying a good walkie-talkie, a magnetic compass, a good set of maps and start brushing up on your land nav skills.

 

[Todjaeger]

Titanium e-tool. It doubles as a shovel.

So is the titanium spork, only it is pocket-sized...:flash

Otherwise, the best (long-term) weapon in such situations would be whatever melee weapon the user can wield reasonably effectively. OTOH, if the user in question knows how to fletch arrows/quarrels, and has access to the appropriate materials as well as strings, then some form of bow would likely be better.

-Cheers

 

[Feanor]

So is the titanium spork, only it is pocket-sized...:flash

I don't know what a spork is

Otherwise, the best (long-term) weapon in such situations would be whatever melee weapon the user can wield reasonably effectively. OTOH, if the user in question knows how to fletch arrows/quarrels, and has access to the appropriate materials as well as strings, then some form of bow would likely be better.

-Cheers

Well this depends on what the threat matrix looks like, and what type of area the person lives in, what resources they have available. If it's a zombie apocalypse, and it's an urban area, raiding the local police station, or gunshop, would make firearms viable even in the long term, especially as one gets better at it, and can mount supply runs to other locations. If it's just an apocalypse, I suppose it would depend on the nature of the apocalypse. I would once again not rule out fire arms, simply because if you're not using them to hunt, then you really have almost no ammunition expenditure, and even if you start out with only a few hundred rounds, it should last for a while.

EDIT: Thinking about it in the long term (Fallout 2 style) there surely will be people who know how to make bullets, and possibly entire firearms from scratch. They may be of inferior quality, but granted a large enough community of survivors, it's not out of bounds.

 

[Waylander]

They hammer AKs from scrap metal in the tribal areas of Pakistan. I assume that firearms won't go away. Even the gucci stuff should stay viable for some time.

BTW, a spork is a mixture of a spoon and a fork.
Like this:
http://greatbignerd.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spork-sul-l.jpg

A great thing for every soldier as one can throw away the usual cutlery which just takes away space.

And don't forget to collect as mayn Nuka Colas as possible...

 

[Todjaeger]

I don't know what a spork is

A spork is a combo spoon-fork-knife utensil. The one I was thinking of in particular is from Light My Fire

Well this depends on what the threat matrix looks like, and what type of area the person lives in, what resources they have available. If it's a zombie apocalypse, and it's an urban area, raiding the local police station, or gunshop, would make firearms viable even in the long term, especially as one gets better at it, and can mount supply runs to other locations. If it's just an apocalypse, I suppose it would depend on the nature of the apocalypse. I would once again not rule out fire arms, simply because if you're not using them to hunt, then you really have almost no ammunition expenditure, and even if you start out with only a few hundred rounds, it should last for a while.

EDIT: Thinking about it in the long term (Fallout 2 style) there surely will be people who know how to make bullets, and possibly entire firearms from scratch. They may be of inferior quality, but granted a large enough community of survivors, it's not out of bounds.

AND

They hammer AKs from scrap metal in the tribal areas of Pakistan. I assume that firearms won't go away. Even the gucci stuff should stay viable for some time.

BTW, a spork is a mixture of a spoon and a fork.
Like this:
http://greatbignerd.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/spork-sul-l.jpg

A great thing for every soldier as one can throw away the usual cutlery which just takes away space.

And don't forget to collect as mayn Nuka Colas as possible...

Yes, a trained craftsman (or better, a machinist with a machine shop) can handcraft firearms, and the same for ammunition, bullets can be cast, powder ground and milled, and depending on the industrial capabity and natural resources, cases and primers made. One must remember though that in the even of an "end of the world as we know it" sort of scenario, pretty much all of the large scale industrial processes we are so used to occurring that we no longer consider them will cease. In that case, while some of these industrial processes might continue even long term, they will not be at the same scale or scope of operations when compared to before the "event(s)".

Let us consider in brief, what is required to make new cases for the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO standard rifle rounds. Not even the entire round mind you, just the cases.

Given that the preferred material for the cases is brass, that means access to copper and zinc bearing ores is required. Then a facility (or facilities) appropriate to smelt the ores and extract the metals is required. Then depending on the location and/or capability of the facility, either the same facility or a distinctly separate one could then combine the copper and zinc metals to create the brass alloy. Once the alloy has been created, then the appropriate dies and/or casts could be used to form the brass casings. It is germane to also note that in order for these industrial processes to be done the appropriate fuel sources are also required to smelt the ores and alloy the formation of the brass alloy. I could be mistaken but charcoal would likely suffice, but there is also a process which would need to be followed to make that, as well as access to the appropriate kinds of wood.

It is also possible that existing brass casing could be re-used/reloaded for some time, and that existing sources of the appropriate brass alloys could be re-cast into bullet casings. It is also possible that existing sources of copper and zinc metals could be recycled and alloyed into brass. Such activities could, for a time, make continued casing production easier. However, there would be issues either with a low rate of production, or a rapid consumption of available brass, and/or metal stocks. Or possibly a combination thereof.

At some point, things would devolve to people gathering and making the materials by hand. And there is a limit to just how much a single person can make in a day, even assuming they have the appropriate skills, materials and tools.

-Cheers

 

[Go229]

Give me an FN-FAL or a G3. I want my precious ammunition to count when i score hits.

 

[Feanor]

A spork is a combo spoon-fork-knife utensil. The one I was thinking of in particular is from Light My Fire



AND



Yes, a trained craftsman (or better, a machinist with a machine shop) can handcraft firearms, and the same for ammunition, bullets can be cast, powder ground and milled, and depending on the industrial capabity and natural resources, cases and primers made. One must remember though that in the even of an "end of the world as we know it" sort of scenario, pretty much all of the large scale industrial processes we are so used to occurring that we no longer consider them will cease. In that case, while some of these industrial processes might continue even long term, they will not be at the same scale or scope of operations when compared to before the "event(s)".

Let us consider in brief, what is required to make new cases for the 5.56 x 45 mm NATO standard rifle rounds. Not even the entire round mind you, just the cases.

Given that the preferred material for the cases is brass, that means access to copper and zinc bearing ores is required. Then a facility (or facilities) appropriate to smelt the ores and extract the metals is required. Then depending on the location and/or capability of the facility, either the same facility or a distinctly separate one could then combine the copper and zinc metals to create the brass alloy. Once the alloy has been created, then the appropriate dies and/or casts could be used to form the brass casings. It is germane to also note that in order for these industrial processes to be done the appropriate fuel sources are also required to smelt the ores and alloy the formation of the brass alloy. I could be mistaken but charcoal would likely suffice, but there is also a process which would need to be followed to make that, as well as access to the appropriate kinds of wood.

It is also possible that existing brass casing could be re-used/reloaded for some time, and that existing sources of the appropriate brass alloys could be re-cast into bullet casings. It is also possible that existing sources of copper and zinc metals could be recycled and alloyed into brass. Such activities could, for a time, make continued casing production easier. However, there would be issues either with a low rate of production, or a rapid consumption of available brass, and/or metal stocks. Or possibly a combination thereof.

At some point, things would devolve to people gathering and making the materials by hand. And there is a limit to just how much a single person can make in a day, even assuming they have the appropriate skills, materials and tools.

-Cheers

The problem seems to solve itself. Either we have so few people that the existing supplies+recycled materials will be sufficient for a long time to come, or we have more people and are able to restore the full production chain on at least some level.

 

[Todjaeger]

The problem seems to solve itself. Either we have so few people that the existing supplies+recycled materials will be sufficient for a long time to come, or we have more people and are able to restore the full production chain on at least some level.

It is possible that the problem could "solve itself" as you suggest. It is also quite possible that the exact opposite could occur. If there are only a few people involved, then existing supplies of raw/recycled materials could sustain production for a considerable duration. The downside here is that if only a few people are involved in such manufacture, then there would consequently be a relatively low output in terms ammunition produced.

Now if the facilities were in place to allow large scale production of ammunition, the facilities would most likely rapidly consume most ready supplies of recycled materials and thus need inputs of new raw materials to sustain production, which then would trigger the need for additional resources and labour, etc.

One must remember that if there were to be some form of large scale event or series of events that might be considered the "apocalypes", this would cause a breakdown of the interconnected global economy and disrupt flow of raw materials and finished goods. Depending on the materials and goods, as well as the area(s) in question, the effects could have a rapid onset or might be more gradual. Just the scope of JIT (Just In Time) supply/demand delivery that is in effect within much of the more developed world, many areas would have a more rapid onset.

Here is an interesting (or perhaps alarming) American-centric statistic. On average, the food an average American consumes today travelled ~1,000 - 1,100 miles from where it was grown to reach the person who will consume it. Now consider the broad implications of that situation. On the one hand, by drawing on food grown from so "far" away, it means that there is a large area of potential agricultural activity so that positive/negative impacts in specific areas/regions would average out, i.e. if there is flooding in some areas of the Mississippi River basin which damages the corn crop, then rice and/or potatoes grown in other areas not subjected to flood could make up for the loss of corn in the food supply. Such a situation is subject though to the overall food supply and commerce/transportation systems functioning. When it works, it works great.

In the case of an apocalypse-type situation, a breakdown in the supply of a single commodity like petroleum (fuel) can cause large-scale disruption every other commodity, nevermind the impact of a breakdown in supplying necessities.

What would happen to the normal food supply most Americans are used to purchasing at their local grocery and/or supermarket in the event of a breakdown in the fuel supply would look something like this. If there was a complete disruption in fuel, then the normal food delivery cycle would immediately change. Instead of stores being re-supplied from regional warehouses on a daily (nightly) basis, deliveries would either cease immediately or be significantly curtailed in attempts to 'stretch' the fuel supply. At the same time though, the restocking shipments to the various warehouses would be similarly impacted. In rapid order, the food demands of urban/suburban areas would outstrip the available supply, as well as the sustainable level of resupply from outlying areas. This difference would impact the population of the affected area(s) via inducing migration to other areas, large scale decline in health/well-being and triggering fierce competition for the available foodstocks.

The example I gave of problems with maintaining a supply of brass 5.56 x 45 mm bullet casings would be affected too. In order for production to be maintained, the producer of the casings need to have/sustain a source of food, which means either they produce the cases, but only at a very low rate, with much/all of the rest of the time being concerned with providing food. As more production is desired, the more people get added in various areas and at differing levels. At a basic level, farmers are required to feed the population, but if complex machinery is utilized, then technicians and mechanics are required to support the machine and they would also need to have food sources, which means even greater numbers of farmers. As more people and/or complicated systems are added, the greater the demands for food and other materials get. Which means that more farmers are needed to meet the area demand for fuel.


Sorry, am beat now. Will attempt to resume & finish later.

-Cheers