Australian Army Discussions and Updates

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PeterM

Active Member
Some general information on the Ocelot

from Light Protected Patrol Vehicle (LPPV) - Army Technology

Ocelot Light Protected Patrol Vehicle (LPPV), United Kingdom

The Ocelot light protected patrol vehicle (LPPV) was launched at the Defence Systems & Equipment International Exhibition (DSEi) held in London in September 2009.

The LPPV is a 7.5t lightweight mine-protected vehicle. It is expected to provide better protection and flexibility than the present light vehicles on the market.

The Ocelot LPPV was specifically designed to meet the UK MoD's LPPV programme requirements. This programme aims to have 400 light protected patrol vehicles production-ready by 2010, and delivered by 2011. The Ocelot LPPV is still in the bidding process for selection under the programme.

The vehicle has been jointly developed by Ricardo and Force Protection Europe, under the banner Ocelot Team. Key features such as speed, flexibility, maintenance and protection of this vehicle are similar to that of the Force Protection Mastiff. It can be used for patrol, fire support or as a protected logistics vehicle.

Ocelot features

The Ocelot LPPV includes an automotive armoured spine system or 'skateboard', onto which various special-role pods are mounted. These pods are detachable and can be interchanged based on the needs of different missions such as patrol, fire support or protected logistics.
"The Ocelot LPPV was specifically designed to meet the UK MoD's LPPV programme requirements."

This combination of the skateboard spine system and pods along with advanced composited technology makes the Ocelot LPPV flexible, survivable, highly protective against blasts and mines.

The vehicle is 5.3m long, 2.3m high and 2.1m wide. The four-wheel steering provides it with a turning circle of 12m.

Another unique feature of the Ocelot vehicle is that it has low centre of gravity as all the heavy items are placed under the skateboard. The vehicle can be accessed through large rear doors, two top hatches or from the oversized commander's door.

The patrol version of the Ocelot LPPV has seating for two crew and four dismounts. The fire support variant and the protected logistics variant have a seating capacity of two crew and two dismounts, and two crew, respectively.

At a maximum payload of 2,000kg, the vehicle can reach a maximum speed of 110km/h. The gross vehicle weight rating of the Ocelot LPPV is 7,500kg. The low maintenance of this vehicle enables the assemblies to be rapidly changed on the field instead of taking it back to the base workshop for any repairs.

Mission variants

The Ocelot LPPV has been built to be flexible enough to perform numerous missions as and when required. The assemblies of the vehicle can be changed and fitted in 30 minutes to customise it for specific missions.

Engine

The Ocelot LPPV is fitted with a Steyr 3.2l engine. It is a six-cylinder, four-stroke diesel engine with turbocharger. The vehicle is also fitted with six speed auto-transmission and independent, lockable differential axles.
"Ocelot can be used for patrol, fire support or as a protected logistics vehicle."

Defence

The vehicle has a v-shaped hull design, which provides maximum protection to the crew. The crew area is separated from the running gear, reducing the danger of injury from the running gear while on attack. The crew and the dismounts are separated by the bulkheads placed between them and kept away from the vehicle's electronic equipment – providing high protection.

Manoeuvrability

The Ocelot LPPV is an improved medium mobility load carrier (IMMLC) having high mobility and combat performance features. The suspension system provides 338mm of ground clearance under normal loaded conditions. The power to weight ratio is 19.3kW/t (25kW/t in combat mode).

Each Ocelot LPPV can be transported in a C-17, C-130, and CH-47 (underslung) aircraft.

Specifications

Developer - Force Protection and Ricardo
Crew - 2 crew + 4 dismounts

Length - 5.3m
Height - 2.3m
Width - 2.1m
Wheelbase - 3.65m

Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) - 7,500kg
Curb Weight - 5,500kg
Maximum Payload Capacity - 2,000kg

Engines - Steyr 3.2l engine
Suspension - 4×4 wheeled
Transmission - 6-speed, automatic
Axles - Independent, lockable differentials

Maximum Speed - 110km/h
Range - 600km at GVW
Ground Clearance - 338mm
Turning Circle - 12m
Fording - 800mm
Transportability - C-17, C-130 and CH-47 (underslung)
 
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P

PeterM

Active Member
Some info on Land 121 phase 4 (from dcp2009)

Phase 4 aims to provide light protected vehicles and trailers for command, liaison, utility and reconnaissance roles. This phase is expected to replace around one third of the current ADF Land Rover fleet.

Phase 4 provides the core of the ADF operationally employable light protected vehicle fleet through the acquisition of around 1300 vehicles and trailers;

In order to pursue the capability sought by Phase 4, Australia has joined the technology development stage of the United States Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) program. A decision on whether Australia will acquire the JLTV is to be made once the vehicles have passed key development and testing milestones, likely to be in 2010 - 2011. To support this decision, the project will also engage with industry to explore other options to provide protected light mobility vehicles.

First Pass Approval Phase 4 = Complete

Year-of-Decision Phase 4 = FY 2012-13 to FY 2014-15

Initial Operating Capability Phase 4 = 2016 to 2018


Acquisition Cost – Phase 4 = Level 1 Very High >$1500m (Towards the lower end of the band)
 
M

Marc 1

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
PeterM said:
Australian Minister for Defence Materiel and Science Greg Combet said three Australian firms would be awarded up to A$9m (US$7.5m) each for the development of 1,300 prototype vehicles.
.
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Cripes! Shouldbe bloody well tested by the time it enters service! 1300 prototypes! Still, at least they'll, be cheap at $20, 769 each (3 x $9M divided by 1300). At that price I'll have a couple too please.:D
 
P

PeterM

Active Member
Marc 1 said:
Cripes! Shouldbe bloody well tested by the time it enters service! 1300 prototypes! Still, at least they'll, be cheap at $20, 769 each (3 x $9M divided by 1300). At that price I'll have a couple too please.:D
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1300 is the total program for Land 121 ph4, obviously some kind of error.

The total budget seems to be a little over $1.15m per vehicle. So I imagine $9mil will get up to half a dozen prototype vehicles.

I wonder which are the 3 australian companies involved?

I find it interesting the JLTV was not selected, presumably we got better outcomes for australian companies.

It seems the Ocelot is still in the bidding phase for the UK MoD's LPPV programme. Does this make the ADF the first user of the Ocelot?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
PeterM said:
1300 is the total program for Land 121 ph4, obviously some kind of error.

The total budget seems to be a little over $1.15m per vehicle. So I imagine $9mil will get up to half a dozen prototype vehicles.

I wonder which are the 3 australian companies involved?

I find it interesting the JLTV was not selected, presumably we got better outcomes for australian companies.

It seems the Ocelot is still in the bidding phase for the UK MoD's LPPV programme. Does this make the ADF the first user of the Ocelot?
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This is NOT a short-listing for Overlander Phase 4. This is a shortlisting of AUSTRALIAN companies to receive cash from the Australian Government to help them develop their products to enable them to submit same for consideration with this project.

JLTV most definitely IS still in the running for this program as are the 3 companies mentioned in the announcement.

Here is the announcement:

Aussie manufacturers given a shot at billion dollar military contract​

Australian manufacturers will be given a chance to win a contract worth more than $1 billion for the manufacture of the next generation of protected mobility vehicles, Greg Combet, Minister for Defence Materiel and Science, announced today.

“Three Australian based companies will be awarded up to $9 million each for the development of protected mobility vehicle prototypes, putting them in the running to land a manufacturing contract for up to 1300 vehicles,” Mr Combet said.

“I am happy to announce that Thales Australia, Force Protection Europe and General Dynamics Land Systems Australia are the three companies who will be given a shot at this important contract.

“This decision means that these companies now have a chance of competing against prototypes being developed in the US that are also in the running for the contract.” (ie: JLTV).

Mr Combet said that the three companies would be given around six months to produce two test drive ready prototype vehicles each.

“The Rudd Government believes that Australia has some of the best defence equipment manufacturers in the world. This decision will mean that they will have a fair chance to compete with other international competitors,” said Mr. Combet

The announcement follows a decision by the Government in 2008 to participate in the current US Joint Light Tactical Vehicle program which is also working on the development of protected mobility vehicle prototypes. (See?)

“Today’s announcement means that there will be greater competition for this very important contract – an outcome that can only lead to better vehicles and capability for the Australian Defence Force,” said Mr. Combet

“The protected mobility vehicles will play an important role in keeping Australian troops safe in combat roles, including command, liaison and light battlefield resupply.

“They will be provided to the Army’s combat units and Air Force’s Air Field Defence Guards and will be designed to operate in future conflict environments.”

Thales Australia has facilities in Bendigo, Victoria. General Dynamics Land Systems Australia has facilities in the suburbs of Adelaide in South Australia.

Media contact: Tim Fitzsimmons 0447 202 469

I've seen "Defpro" and other sites get this wrong. Apparently reading comprehension skills are not required to be a "Defence Professional" around the internet...
 
P

PeterM

Active Member
Presumably Thales Australia will be offering the Hawkei

Force Protection Europe will obviously be offering the Ocelot (although I didn't realise they were an "Australian" company).

Any idea on what General Dynamics Land Systems Australia will offer? Perhaps either the DURO APV or RG-31 Mk5 MPV from GDLS Canada?


it seems like there will be excellent competition for this project
 
R

riksavage

Banned Member
PeterM said:
Presumably Thales Australia will be offering the Hawkei

Force Protection Europe will obviously be offering the Ocelot (although I didn't realise they were an "Australian" company).

Any idea on what General Dynamics Land Systems Australia will offer? Perhaps either the DURO APV or RG-31 Mk5 MPV from GDLS Canada?


it seems like there will be excellent competition for this project
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From a pure aesthetics perspective the Hawkei is the best looking vehicle of the bunch, the Ocelot looks like one of the ugly sisters! However the Ocelot does have a number of advantages, it can be field stripped very easily and the rear compartment can be quickly changed to suit a variety of roles (force protection, utility, ambulance etc.). Recent blast testing exceeded the requirements laid down by the UK, largely due to its unique skateboard design.

See below link for phot's.

http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0510/land121_4_australia_26052010.html
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
PeterM said:
Presumably Thales Australia will be offering the Hawkei
Click to expand...
I hope not.. there are better fare about....

Ocelot offers greater flexibility IMO...

it's a good thing that fugliness is not a procurement metric in evaluation though ....
 
R

rossfrb_1

Member
The Hawkei looks more like a Gucci Hummer, the Ocelot, well the word austere comes to mind. However the rugged design philosophy is certainly apparent with the Ocelot.

rb
 
U

uuname

New Member
Here are some videos showing the Joint Light Tactical Vehicle (JLTV) contenders:

http://defensetech.org/2010/06/04/first-look-joint-light-tactical-vehicle-jltv/

The last one sure has a distinctive engine sound!

So that will be six vehicles in the Australian competition? Hawkei, Ocelot, Eagle, and the 3 JLTVs?

I read somewhere that there were concerns over the weight of the JLTV. Are the local options lighter?

Also, what if the ADF like one of the JLTVs that isn't selected by the US? If it's not produced, it won't be available... Is it really necessary to test all three?
 
aussienscale

aussienscale

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Australian soldiers killed in Afghanistan

Very saddened to hear two Diggers killed in Afghanistan today (early Monday Afghan time) by a roadside IED. A very sombre reminder of the dangers and sacrifice's our ADF personnel face every day.
Sincere condolences to the two family's and friends
 
O

old faithful

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
just a quick question in regards to 4RAR.
Now that 4RAR has turned into 2 CDO REGT, does 4RAR exsist at all, on paper, or will link with 2RAR again, or totally become history?
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
old faithful said:
just a quick question in regards to 4RAR.
Now that 4RAR has turned into 2 CDO REGT, does 4RAR exsist at all, on paper, or will link with 2RAR again, or totally become history?
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The Colours have been laid up at the SOI. The battalion exists on the order of battle, but only to maintain links to the 4RAR Association. In essence there is no 4RAR anymore, but I expect it to be the battalion raised should any further infantry expansion occur (which it should).

Cheers

AD
 
A

Aussie Digger

Guest
riksavage said:
Has the Aus army invested in 7.62mm semi's? I've seem a few phot's in the Aus press if Áus'military carrying sharpshooter rifles?

Digger wounded in major Afghan offensive - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Yep. 2x systems in fact.

The Knights Armament M110 used by Specwarrie elements as seen here:

http://www.defence.gov.au/op/afghanistan/gallery/2010/20100616/20100600adf0000000_0006.jpg

And the SR-25 used by conventional units, as seen here:

http://www.defence.gov.au/op/afghanistan/gallery/2010/20100504a/20100429adf8246638_362.jpg
 
L

lopez

Member
the adf unready to defend australia???

i was watching the news this morning and they made the outrageous claim that the adf cant defend australia, the usual over exageration.

however they said that the adf or army has 13000 soldier/personnel (they didnt make it that clear) that arent combat capable. its probably just those intrainig and people who arent in a combat role.


so my question is who are these people (what is their role) and is it really a problem?
 
M

Marc 1

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
lopez said:
i was watching the news this morning and they made the outrageous claim that the adf cant defend australia, the usual over exageration.

however they said that the adf or army has 13000 soldier/personnel (they didnt make it that clear) that arent combat capable. its probably just those intrainig and people who arent in a combat role.


so my question is who are these people (what is their role) and is it really a problem?
Click to expand...
Depends what scenario, and in what context. If suddenly the Musorians teleported a couple of well equipped mechanised divisions onto a battlefield, the ARA probably has sufficient resources to defend a small country town like Jugiong (pick your favourite town with less that 500 people). But that scenario forgets the sea/air gap to our north, the need for an attacker to bridge that gap and then support and resupply their forces in country.

So whilst in a one on one conflict, our comparitively tiny military wouldn't be too capable, in reality, who is going to invade us? How will they get here? How will they support themselves once in country and trust me when I point out if it did look like we were about the be invaded we would not be alone.

The 13,000 mentioned are probably the loggies, the troops engaged in training roles, those assigned to various non operational HQ's the people in procurement etc. An army cannot fight without trained soldiers, bullets or something to fire them from. The media love a sensationalist story, and the ADF is pretty much a sitting duck (ironically) for today's 'reporters'
whose idea or research is taking a press release from a vested interest and calling it 'news'
 
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