PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

[nevidimka]

Havaarla, i do not dispute that the moveable LERX is probably used as a control surface in manouvres, but during take off I think its used differently. The intakes may be huge, but during take off it may be partially closed to protect from partiocles entering the intake? Most Russian fighters have protection during take off. I think we shouldnt discount that.

IF it was used for lift during take off, the moveable LERX should have bent downwards n not upwards.. Maybe some experts can shed more light on it.

 

[Haavarla]

Havaarla, i do not dispute that the moveable LERX is probably used as a control surface in manouvres, but during take off I think its used differently. The intakes may be huge, but during take off it may be partially closed to protect from partiocles entering the intake? Most Russian fighters have protection during take off. I think we shouldnt discount that.

IF it was used for lift during take off, the moveable LERX should have bent downwards n not upwards.. Maybe some experts can shed more light on it.

Yeah i know, it puzzles me too..

http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/a...an-5th-generation-fighter-3725-49/#post192443


Thanks

 

[nevidimka]

Btw, doesnt it look like F15 vs Su 27 all over again. The F 22 came out first, it has more straight lines compared to the body blended design of the Pak FA just like the Flanker. Plus the Pak FA is being design without compromise in maneuverability just like the flanker was. Plus the Pak Fa is bigger to the F 22, and its intakes positions below compared to the side positioning of the F 22 just like their former ones.

 

[Feanor]

They're reflective of the philosophies of aircraft design of two different countries, as well as the doctrinal requirements of two different airforces.

 

[tigar]

I`m sorry don`t wanna piss anybody off ............this is not canards???....canards are used for vectoring air to the wing....in this concept I think its simple put the hand out of your window (of course if you are in passengr seat of your car) and see if you have more lift if you put it up or down

 

[tigar]

also where are people coming with this idea of "wide band stealth".....seriosely is sombody mad or just running his mouth......there is nothing invisible under 2Ghz.....so this whole stealth thing is academic...since everybody invested in it must be profitable......hence russian fighters sold during `70-`90

 

[tigar]

P.S................ Correction 90-10

 

[funtz]

You made a specific claim. more then 50% of Russian equipment supplied to India did not work. Waiting on sources... or are you ready to admit you're running your mouth without anything behind it?

Nothing in that article is news, issues with the kilo subs, in particular with the Club missile systems for them, have been posted on here a long time ago. It has nothing to do with your silly claim in regards to the PAK-FA program.

I think the defence establishment in India has been clear on this for a long time, the administrative delays on both sides are unavoidable, perhaps with the amount of business going on a special structure would serve well

Joint Manufacturing of Aircraft
17:27 IST
/LOK SABHA/

India and Russia signed Inter Governmental Agreements (IGA) for Co-development and Co-Production for Multi Role Transport Aircraft (MTA) on November 12, 2007 and for a Prospective Multi Role Fighter Aircraft (PMF) on October 18, 2007.

The percentage share of investment by the Indian side towards development will be 50 % each for both aircraft. The Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) would be comparable to the best of its type/class in the world. The project would be set up in India, as well as in Russia. MTA & FGFA, both are design and development programmes. It is estimated that the aircraft would be inducted by the Indian Air Force in the 13th Plan period.

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Shri MM Pallam Raju in a written reply to Shri Tufani Saroj in Lok Sabha today.

PK / RAJ

PIB Press Release

 

[Feanor]

There are special structures in place, like committees to oversee the military-technical cooperation as it's called in Russia, and other joint bodies. Major joint vetures typically involve a jointly held company, such as the Brahmos.

 

[Haavarla]

# 504 hard at work on the Pak-Fa radar testing.

And the T-50 in new colours.

 

[Haavarla]

And some related stuff from Air International:

"The latest Air International has an article on bad boy Pak Fa some pointers:

"Oval shaped antenna of the SH121 in current form is about 900mm wide and 700mm in height and contains 1526 T/R modules; the final antenna for Pak Fa will reportedly be larger and contain about 2000 modules
Tests for the new radar are supposedly starting in 2010 using a Tu134 (same jet used to train Blackjack crews). Five AESA antennas front Xband, two located on the side are also X band and two installed in wing leading edges are L band.

- Currently two AL-41F1 (izdeliye 117 - advanced version of AL41-F1S - izdeliye 117s used by Su35) rated at 147kn each.
It suggests that final versions or later versions will be powered by a new engine with >157kn thrust each.

- Tender for 2nd stage of engine was issued in 06 but cancelled in may 07. Proposals by both NPO Saturn and MMPP Salut were rejected due to "formal" reasons. According to Ilya Fedorov (GM of Saturn) the date contest has been moved to the first quarter of this year, but that does not mean necessarily that it will not be postponed again. Fedorov expects that the project will be carried out with co-operation of several companies led by Saturn:
- Core - Aviadvigatel in Perm together will Saturn will work on Core
- NPP Motor in Ulfa would make low pressure compressor fans and afterburner chamber
- Klimov in St Petersburg would make the TVC nozzle, gearbox and APU
- AMNTK Soyuz in Moscow will look after inlet guide vanes as well as rcs reduction for injun
- Series prod. for new engine likely to happen at UMPO Factory in UFA where 117 and 117s are manufactured
NPO Saturn is currenly offering participation to its greatest rival MMPP Salut (Moscow based), however Salut is expecting more as it wants to be a general integrator. Salut has lost the 1st stage injun tender and is continuing development of the AL-31 FM3 in hopes of powering the PAK FA rated at 152 kn.

- Engine TVC supposedly managed the same way as the MKI the nozzles move up and down (two dimensional) but the central plane of each nozzle is deflected aside (right to right and left to left) so the nozzles move within v-like intersecting planes. Inclusion of LEREXes a very important feature.

- There are quite a few pics of missiles(AA and AG) all with complete folding fins notable are 810 type AA missiles (4.2m or 13.9 ft) long range, multipurpose KH 38M (4.2m or 13.9ft) long weighing 520kg (1146lb) and KH58 USHK (4.2m or 13.9ft) long weighing 650kg anti radar missile. Each weapons bay reportedly are estimated to be 4.6m to 4.7m (15.1 to 15.5 ft long) and 1 to 1.1 m wide (3.3ft to 3.7ft) two 810 or KH38M or KH58USHK can be placed inside one weapon bay. Other smaller types of munitions include K77M, K74 and K30. Also KH36 anti radar and 250KG and 500KG guided PGMs. A single but similar weapon bay was fitted to the Berkut in summer of 07 this had two ejector racks and side by side placement.

- Static instability is reportedly 10% to 12% when compared to the 5% to 6% of SU27M/MKI and the neutral instability of basic SU27. Design aimed towards being more agile when supersonic than previous fighters."

A little something for our Russian readers here:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MwKsRVtOwc"]YouTube- Title 01[/ame]


Thanks

 

[Feanor]

Shortened landing and take-off is being mentioned again, in the video, along with extra-manouverability.

 

[Haavarla]

Well it looks like the T-50 has some sort of radars blockers right behind where the MLG fits into the air-inlet duct.

Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums - View Single Post - The PAK-FA saga Episode 12.0

NB: I cant copy paste the images for some reason.. sorry.


And here is an Article on the Pak-Fa from some US commanders..

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/03/airforce_russian_fighter_032210w/

They seems to contradict themself here..?

If they are not impressed with the T-50 as an 5th gen aircraft, why on earth should they keep pushing for an 6th gen aircraft?


Thanks

 

[plasmahawk]

Well it looks like the T-50 has some sort of radars blockers right behind where the MLG fits into the air-inlet duct.

Thanks

I found a bigger picture of the plane,and some photoshopping also attached here:
Plas

 

[plasmahawk]

And some related stuff from Air International:

YouTube- Title 01

Thanks

Such insult, the TSAGI Chief brought into the news room an L-15 from the PLA
seriously, why not a yak-130. where did he get this model to bring it into the studio..
must have been kicking around at some toy store on the way to the studio.

its equivalent to Clarence Leonard "Kelly" Johnson - showing a model of a Mig-23 while talking about the SR-71....

Plas
:shudder

 

[Feanor]

Silly sure, but the PAK-FA model is classified apparently to the point where he can't bring one on the TV show.

 

[tigar]

those pics show full frontal of the engines .....something is not adding up here???

how is this stealthy???

 

[Marc 1]

those pics show full frontal of the engines .....something is not adding up here???

how is this stealthy???

Apparently the final configuration will include a trick looking radar trap - that can vary between allowing a straighter path for greater thrust and a more curved path at a slight cost in thrust to not show the face of the compressor.

 

[Chrisious]

Pak-fa

Not sure if the link below has been posted on this site already though have included. Any thoughts on the carbon plastic material mentioned in the video. Is this much of an impovement in the production of these aircraft?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0x2EDghbE"]YouTube- PAK FA: T-50 - Technologies of take off (English and Greek subs)[/nomedia]

 

[Feanor]

Again it mentions 5 radars. 1 in the cone, 2 in the sides, and 2 in the wings.