How much of a messed up criminal record are we talking here, like if you grand theft auto charge, will the army take you?
army or marines
- Thread starter sarsfieldusmc
- Start date
Why? Have you been stealing cars?
A convicted felon cannot enlist in the Army unless they are given a waiver. The waiver rpocess isn't automatic and is granted on a purely case-by-case basis. (US Army Info Site: Joining the Army)
To be clear, we are talking about the Vietnam era, 1960's. The how much I have no clue, as I understand it the "crimes" we are talking about are petty ie shoplifting, breaking into vending machines, that sort of thing.
Depends on where you want to end-up? If you are determined to go for an SF role then it has to be Army - you have the option of transferring to the Rangers, Special Forces then maybe Delta subject to a successful selection pass. If you join the USMC you are restricted to Marine Recon unless you transfer to the USN and opt for SEAL Team BUDS. Whilst the USMC has a great esprit de corp I would opt for the Army - more options.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
And here I was thinking you were Russian.
As i'm not from the US I choose none of the above. I'd probably join the RAN.
I am Russian. But I live in the states.And here I was thinking you were Russian.
As i'm not from the US I choose none of the above. I'd probably join the RAN.
So why the Navy?
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Fair enough.I am Russian. But I live in the states.
Err, join the navy and see the world?
Navy Reserve not really an option anyway, since I have no intention of moving any closer to Sydney then I am right now and plan on moving further away as soon as I finish my post grad studies.
Not planning on joining the military, maybe i'd change my mind if it looked like the country needed everyone they could get, but not as of now. Wont discuss further here, maybe on PM if you would like.
I'm a recruiting NCO so let me jump in here!
The US Armed Forces have been all volunteer since the suspension of conscription in the Mid 70's (though males are still required to register when they turn 18).
Each branch of service (Army, Navy, Marines, Coast Guard, Air Force) sets its own enlistment standards (with the exception of medical standards which are shared) age, aptitude, moral, etc.
Currently the Army is not considering any applicants with any felony charges on their record. We can enlist applicants with 1 or 2 misdemeanors (more than 1 requires a waiver), though certain crimes are non-waiverable. Certain positions require either secret or top secret security clearances, and for those positions you need a pretty spotless record (to include credit history).
Things that will prevent you from enlisting: any felony, any domestic violence charge, any sex crime, and drug charge other than simple possession of marijuana, more than 3 misdemeanors of any kind, more than 1 charge of driving while intoxicated, etc.
The days of a Judge telling someone "go to war or go to jail" are over.
The Army did a study a few years ago which concluded of the "target demographic" (males 17-25) only ~30% of Americans were eligible to enlist based on medical, education, moral and aptitude standards.
SSG Gunn
============================================
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle!"
General Pershing US Army General
An official German report classified the Marines as "vigorous, self-confident, and remarkable marksmen...",Battle of Belleau Wood
=====================================
When I was in the Marines you had to have a High School diploma or else they will not accept you, but to join the Army you did not need one.
When I asked my recruiter as to why, he told me because the Marines see you as a person who quit if you drop out of High school. This was back in the mid 80s; I’m not sure about now.
Also, if you join the Marines and later on decide to join the Army, you get to keep the rank you had as a Marine, and never have to go through army boot camp, but if you are in the Army or Navy and later on decide to join the Marines, you have to go through Marine Corps boot camp, and you lose the rank you had in the Army……………….This is what I was told back in the 80’s, I’m not sure about the year 2010.
==================================
Well, when I was in the Marines, I had a friend who joined the Army after his enlistment ended and kept his rank, which was Corporal at the time. He told me that he just had to go to some orientation class; I can’t recall how long that was.
Also when I went through Boot camp there were a couple of former Sailors with us, and they lose their pay grade. This was like over 20 years ago; I’m not sure what the policies are now.
Remember Marine Corp Boot camp is 13 weeks long as to compare with Army boot camp which is 8 weeks long. The Marines are trained to do everything the army does and some. All Marines are trained as basic rifle men.
Last I knew, Marines that transferred to the Army did not go to basic training but that's also somewhat misleading and not as quite as it sounds in some cases.
There are really 2 types of BCT/AIT in the Army and this is what creates the illusion that the Army BCT is only 8 weeks long versus the Marine Corps (is it 13 weeks?).
For the Army, certain MOS's have BCT and AIT as 2 very distinct and seperate phases. Of these, some AIT courses are very easy in comparison to others ie clerks, cooks etc. In these cases no question Marine Boot is much tougher not only by the standards applied but also due to the length of the training cycle.
For Infantry, Tankers, Cav Scout etc BCT and AIT are combined into what's called OSUT (One Station Unit Training) which is one seamless training cycle. Infantry is 16 weeks long IIRC, and they don't take it easy on you after week 8 and there is no perceived difference in how you are treated from week 1 to week 16. I'm sure an Army grunt and a Marine could argue about this all day but in reallity I don't think one is particularly tougher than the other to get through. The Marines are wise to make all comers go through their boot camp, it helps maintain the esprit de corps and eliminates anyone from becoming a Marine "the easy way".
A Marine is still going to have to reclass in an MOS which means they still need to go to AIT which these days, is just another iteration of basic/boot but if a guy has made it through an enlistment already this isn't going to be that big of a deal.
I've served with a number of ex-Marines and quite honestly, they weren't any better or different than Army guys. My experience has been a lot more Marines go Army, than the other way around. I believe this is due entirely to better career opportunities that the Army offers.
There are really 2 types of BCT/AIT in the Army and this is what creates the illusion that the Army BCT is only 8 weeks long versus the Marine Corps (is it 13 weeks?).
For the Army, certain MOS's have BCT and AIT as 2 very distinct and seperate phases. Of these, some AIT courses are very easy in comparison to others ie clerks, cooks etc. In these cases no question Marine Boot is much tougher not only by the standards applied but also due to the length of the training cycle.
For Infantry, Tankers, Cav Scout etc BCT and AIT are combined into what's called OSUT (One Station Unit Training) which is one seamless training cycle. Infantry is 16 weeks long IIRC, and they don't take it easy on you after week 8 and there is no perceived difference in how you are treated from week 1 to week 16. I'm sure an Army grunt and a Marine could argue about this all day but in reallity I don't think one is particularly tougher than the other to get through. The Marines are wise to make all comers go through their boot camp, it helps maintain the esprit de corps and eliminates anyone from becoming a Marine "the easy way".
A Marine is still going to have to reclass in an MOS which means they still need to go to AIT which these days, is just another iteration of basic/boot but if a guy has made it through an enlistment already this isn't going to be that big of a deal.
I've served with a number of ex-Marines and quite honestly, they weren't any better or different than Army guys. My experience has been a lot more Marines go Army, than the other way around. I believe this is due entirely to better career opportunities that the Army offers.
My opinion...
In 1986, I did an exercise called pacific bond. We were billeted with the 25th infantry in Hawaii for about 6 weeks.
I found the entire experience a huge eye opener. we did exercises with both marines (inf) and army, air assault. The logistics of the US Army has to be seen to be believed, incredible. Thats why IMO, they are better than the marines.
as far as individual training and small unit tactics are concerned, The marines won hands down, i think they were the better soldier than the US Army. Having said that, i think that the Aussie grunt was better trained than both US infantry and marine. 5 of our guys did the US Army ranger indoctronation course (think thats what it was called) and we won the first 4 places, a British army Ghurka came 5th and another Aussie 6th.
I may be a bit biased, but I dont think so.
having said that, the US Army's tactics were a lot different to ours. we came under sniper fire on one ex, I was our gunner, and we layed down surpressing fire while an assault group tried to take out the sniper from a flank.
The US Army LT observer suggested an artillery strike or Air strike. If we had done the same, our superiors would have laughed us out of the ex....we just dont have the logistic luxury to call in ARTY or Air for a lone sniper.
In 1986, I did an exercise called pacific bond. We were billeted with the 25th infantry in Hawaii for about 6 weeks.
I found the entire experience a huge eye opener. we did exercises with both marines (inf) and army, air assault. The logistics of the US Army has to be seen to be believed, incredible. Thats why IMO, they are better than the marines.
as far as individual training and small unit tactics are concerned, The marines won hands down, i think they were the better soldier than the US Army. Having said that, i think that the Aussie grunt was better trained than both US infantry and marine. 5 of our guys did the US Army ranger indoctronation course (think thats what it was called) and we won the first 4 places, a British army Ghurka came 5th and another Aussie 6th.
I may be a bit biased, but I dont think so.
having said that, the US Army's tactics were a lot different to ours. we came under sniper fire on one ex, I was our gunner, and we layed down surpressing fire while an assault group tried to take out the sniper from a flank.
The US Army LT observer suggested an artillery strike or Air strike. If we had done the same, our superiors would have laughed us out of the ex....we just dont have the logistic luxury to call in ARTY or Air for a lone sniper.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
Neither I think. I think he was or is in the Australian Army based on what he was saying and on some posts in his profile.
Ah. I misinterpreted the post.Neither I think. I think he was or is in the Australian Army based on what he was saying and on some posts in his profile.
No worries mate, Im ex 3 RAR (para) Australian army.