PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter

[Grand Danois]

The first specs i've come across on the T-50:

1. about air intakes, the latest version of Paralia: "And here is the S-shaped and one hundred percent screening of the compressor. By the way the hatch over the channel is also involved, may well replace the mechanical adjustment."

Yeah, that graphic looks pretty convincing. What's Paralia?

 

[Akula540]

Dr. Carlo Kopp and Peter Goon have published a long article on PAK FA. I am aware of the reputation Kopp holds for some people, but it is interesting read for enthusiasts.
Assessing the Sukhoi PAK-FA /

 

[localhost127]

Dr. Carlo Kopp and Peter Goon have published a long article on PAK FA. I am aware of the reputation Kopp holds for some people, but it is interesting read for enthusiasts.
Assessing the Sukhoi PAK-FA /

Therefore, from a technological strategy perspective, the PAK-FA renders all legacy US fighter aircraft, and the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter, strategically irrelevant and non-viable after the PAK-FA achieves IOC in 2015.

fairly bold statement to make. quite frankly, i was expecting such even earlier in the article

It is important to consider that the publicly displayed PAK-FA prototype does not represent a production configuration of the aircraft, which is to employ a new engine design, and extensive VLO treatments which are not required on a prototype.A number of observers have attempted to draw conclusions about production PAK-FA VLO performance based on the absence of such treatments, the result of which have been a series of unrealistically optimistic commentaries..

pot, meet kettle?

 

[Bonza]

fairly bold statement to make. quite frankly, i was expecting such even earlier in the article

You've hit the nail on the head, and this is exactly why nobody with an interest in the topic should take that website seriously. It's alarmist, full of speculation, and misrepresents what data it does contain for the sake of APA's own agendas and vendettas. They don't seek to inform, but to mislead, and worst of all they do it under the guise of being the "brave voice of truth".

Not dissing you or anything Akula, but I would caution anyone looking for pertinent information to direct their attention elsewhere. APA is utterly without credibility.

 

[StevoJH]

You've hit the nail on the head, and this is exactly why nobody with an interest in the topic should take that website seriously. It's alarmist, full of speculation, and misrepresents what data it does contain for the sake of APA's own agendas and vendettas. They don't seek to inform, but to mislead, and worst of all they do it under the guise of being the "brave voice of truth".

Not dissing you or anything Akula, but I would caution anyone looking for pertinent information to direct their attention elsewhere. APA is utterly without credibility.

The super duper upgraded Mach 3, VLO F-111 will beat them though!! :goodbad

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Too bad the T5C Kopp topic didn't get transferred over to the new version of the forum.

For reference. Kopp (and Goon) have been trying to get the Australian Government to upgrade the F-111 into some sort of fantasy Super-Pig and create force of F-111 and (unavailable and unsuitable) F-22A's for years. Hence why every post on their site either:
- Talks up the F22A and F-111
- Bashes the F-18F and F-33; or
- Talks up the thread ot Flankers.
All carried out using questionable analytical methods (as far as I can see) and with access only to open source material.

Its up to you, but personally i'll go with what people in the know, such as gf and others on this board state, especially given that everything i've seen posted on other boards and sites seems to be along similar lines.

 

[Feanor]

Their pictures are nice though.

 

[Grand Danois]

Yes they are, but let's stay on topic. Things gets derailed when APA is brought up. PAK-FA it is.

 

[Feanor]

So my question is, has anyone heard anything on the engines? TRDDF or not.

 

[Scorpion82]

My understanding is that the prototype is currently powered by the AL-41F1, a further developed version of the AL-41F1S found on the Su-35S, with a bit more thrust and higher degree of automation. The ultimate engine has yet to be developed.

 

[Marc 1]

Only for these words I can say that this is CRAP.
It was not "Some Russian sources have suggested ". It was said by president and prime-minister

My understanding is that the prototype is currently powered by the AL-41F1, a further developed version of the AL-41F1S found on the Su-35S, with a bit more thrust and higher degree of automation. The ultimate engine has yet to be developed.

Anybody else see a problem when these two statements are put side by side?

 

[Feanor]

Yes. Of course. There is considerable ambiguity about what engines it currently has. However the Su-35S doesn't use the AL-41F engines, but 117S engines. The prototype uses something different from this. Something that also is not the AL-41F. And it's pretty clear that the engine will have further improvements. The conversation about the specifics and designations gets murky because we don't have official info.

 

[nevidimka]

IIRC a few years ago, the AL 41 was said to be smaller by dimension due to the smaller size of the PAK FA compared to the flankers, but how about the 117S? Is it also in a smaller dimension to the AL 31F? If its not, then how are they gonna scale down the size of the airframe to fit the smaller AL 41? I dont think there will scaling or redesigning it though.

 

[Feanor]

That's another issue. I recall reading that the new engines for the PAK-FA had been tested in an Su-27M flying laboratory on iirc Jan. 21st for the first time. So I suspect that the PAK-FA engines will physically be the same size.

 

[Scorpion82]

Yes. Of course. There is considerable ambiguity about what engines it currently has. However the Su-35S doesn't use the AL-41F engines, but 117S engines. The prototype uses something different from this. Something that also is not the AL-41F. And it's pretty clear that the engine will have further improvements. The conversation about the specifics and designations gets murky because we don't have official info.

Well the article 117S is referred to as the AL-41F1S, while the article 117 is referred to as the AL-41F1. These are not exactly the AL-41F originally designed for the MFI, but they incorporate technologies from that engine or enhanced technology on that base.

 

[Haavarla]

Well the article 117S is referred to as the AL-41F1S, while the article 117 is referred to as the AL-41F1. These are not exactly the AL-41F originally designed for the MFI, but they incorporate technologies from that engine or enhanced technology on that base.

Well just as long the engines have the same robust capability as in stall speed recovering etc etc, like the AL-31F i'm happy.

When they cram more thrust out of those engine, doesn't the fuel consumtion go up too?




Thanks

 

[Chrom]

Well just as long the engines have the same robust capability as in stall speed recovering etc etc, like the AL-31F i'm happy.

When they cram more thrust out of those engine, doesn't the fuel consumtion go up too?




Thanks

Rumors PAK-FA uses prototype 117 (not 117S) engines for its first flight. Most likely these 117 engines will be installed on first serial PAK-FA as true 5-gen egines will not be ready by 2015.
Even 117 engines said to provide enough thrust for superuise, although not in optimal manner.

More thrust needed for supercruise without afterburner, this will actually reduce fuel consumtion.

 

[Feanor]

Well the article 117S is referred to as the AL-41F1S, while the article 117 is referred to as the AL-41F1. These are not exactly the AL-41F originally designed for the MFI, but they incorporate technologies from that engine or enhanced technology on that base.

Do you have a source by any chance? These designations are news to me.

 

[Scorpion82]

Do you have a source by any chance? These designations are news to me.

That's what I gathered over all the years. Recent articles spoke about the 117 to power the T-50 prototype and the designation AL-41F1 was repeatedly mentioned. The only handy source I have at hand is this ITAR Tass article:
"Ufa Engine Industrial Association will deliver about 100 aircraft engines for the Su-35 Air Force Russia

MOSCOW, October 9.(ITAR-TASS). JSC "Ufa Engine Industrial Association" (UMPO) entered into a contract with "Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Association" (Knaapo) to supply engines AL-41F-1C for the latest multi-role fighters Su-35C, the report said OPK Oboronprom, comprising UMPO.

These engines are designed for installation on the aircraft SU-35C, supplied by Russia's air force. Until 2015 UMPO manufacture 96 such engines, with the first batch will be shipped in 2010

For the first time in Russia's military aircraft in Su-35C received engines with thrust vector control.To date, rotating jet, which provides this feature are only installed on engines that are supplied for export.

AL-41F-1C is an aircraft turbofan engines with thrust vector control 4 + + generation. It is being developed in cooperation UMPO and Saturn on the order of the OKB Sukhoi.

Currently UMPO begun to assemble the final layout engine in development works.

Earlier it was reported that in August, during the MAKS-2009, the Defense Ministry signed contracts with OAO Sukhoi Company for the supply of 48 Su-35C, 12 Su-27SM and 4 Su-30m2.

The total value of contracts exceeds 80 billion rubles.Deliveries must be implemented before 2015"

 

[Feanor]

I see. I didn't know that the AL-41 designation had already been assigned. I assumed they were saving it for the finished product.

 

[ghost]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PnVV9e9-gA]YouTube - Первый полёт ПÐК ФРТ-50 (Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA)[/ame]

I understand it's a prototype, not a serial plane . But there are couple of questions:

1. Would this type of engines work for plane's stealth?
2. Where are the weapons doors?