MBT-2000 (Al-khalid / Type-90-IIM)

[SURB]

That is the twin brother of Al-Khalid tank. VT1A is a basic version of Type 99 for export (from china) to developing countries, being closer to AlKhaild it can be integrated with necessary system if required by customer and if the customer wants it cheap, its basic configuration as VT1A.
Summarizing it ,VT1A is just a basic tank comfigration out of which one have to make an AlKhalid for himself!
I think it's even more economical than Al-Khalid & it will serve the purpose .

 

[Chuncho]

The minister had said that the actual MBT-2000 type that will probably be chosen as the main MBT will have much better upgrades and modern technologies than these 5 demonstrators that we have seen today.

 

[SURB]

The minister had said that the actual MBT-2000 type that will probably be chosen as the main MBT will have much better upgrades and modern technologies than these 5 demonstrators that we have seen today.

Isn't he indicating towards it's upgradation to Al-Khalid.
if it is then it will better able to counter the threat of Leopard 2A4.

 

[shag]

That is the twin brother of Al-Khalid tank. VT1A is a basic version of Type 99 for export (from china) to developing countries, being closer to AlKhaild it can be integrated with necessary system if required by customer and if the customer wants it cheap, its basic configuration as VT1A.
Summarizing it ,VT1A is just a basic tank comfigration out of which one have to make an AlKhalid for himself!
I think it's even more economical than Al-Khalid & it will serve the purpose .

Type-99? Don't you mean type 90IIM or type 96? Al Khalid is not based on type-99 AFAIK!
Besides I notice VT1A is supposed to be 49 tons by weight against 47-48 tons I see for al-khalid, so How can it be stripped down version of al khalid??
I am not so sure about this since my knowledge on this subject is mostly from public sources but from what I know Type-99 itself is a relatively expensive tank derived from Type98G .Global security pegs it at $2 mil a piece. definetly not close to al-khalid. Could you please clarify this one?

 

[shag]

In this modern day and age you cannot use the battle proven theory any longer, new testing critera with technology to assist can do a pretty good job in designing a initial proto type plus factor in the cooperation between countries on their proven technologies.

I do agree to that.

Pakistan could have T-84s if they wanted them but they decided to go the Al-Khalid route due to major advancement in technologies that China and Ukraine have made in armor vehicle designs, I find it ironic that there are still people circulating on some of these forums(not implying you) who refuse to give China and Ukraine credit when it comes to vehicle designs, both countries can match anything that comes out of Russia MBT wise but every one feels that the T-90 is the altimate premier tank and why, the T-series has nothing but a dismal performance past, do not sell the Chinese short. With that said I would state that Ukraine has helped assist China and Pakistan in the design of Al-Khalid,(example) please remember that some of the T-80UD turrets supplied to Pakistan are of all welded design with K5 secondary armor, kinda like the same as your T-90S tanks right. So I do not think that Pakistan would take a lessor capable tank in its inventory, especially due to the region they would be operating in. T-90S and Al-Khalid are both very capable tanks that will serve India and Pakistan proud, if war was to break out ( and I hope not) it is gonna come to who has the best battle doctrine.

[/QUOTE]
I don't consider T-80UD to be a sub-par tank in anyway. But MBT 2000/type-96 Derivatives are export oriented tanks now and they are not the most formidable tanks that chinese are building, That title would probably go to the WZ-123 or Type-99. Which from the limited specs available/claimed on it can be considered a decent tank.

 

[Type59]

MBT 2000 has advantages over T 90 such as 360 degrees panaromic sight and if they go with a Ukrainian or Chinese eqivilant a 1200hp engine compared to 1000 hp engine on T 90, then it will have better mobility. In terms of armor it is debatatable but newer ERA package on T 90 is available thus T90 has edge in this area. In terms of firepower, both have similiar capabilities.

Chinese will also offer good terms in loan repayment, compared to competators.

Edit: A K /MBT 2000 has a battlefield management system. Thus this is availiable to Peru.

 

[eckherl]

MBT 2000 has advantages over T 90 such as 360 degrees panaromic sight and if they go with a Ukrainian or Chinese eqivilant a 1200hp engine compared to 1000 hp engine on T 90, then it will have better mobility. In terms of armor it is debatatable but newer ERA package on T 90 is available thus T90 has edge in this area. In terms of firepower, both have similiar capabilities.

Chinese will also offer good terms in loan repayment, compared to competators.

Edit: A K /MBT 2000 has a battlefield management system. Thus this is availiable to Peru.

Russians can also offer 360 degree sighting systems, you will more than likely see this on their next export upgrade package, please keep in mind that MBT 2000 armor layout is modular in design concept so newer capable kits can be offered, this is one of the benificial reasons why Pakistan stayed with this design.

 

[eckherl]

Actually the press and the army are calling it as the MBT-2000; the Minister of Defense and the other officer that were interviewed in the local TV stated that these 5 tanks were given by China as test units, further more the Minister stated that the Chinese tanks are the ones ahead on the competition for the final MBT. What is strange is that this is the first time in Peru that an arm system it's shown publicly and in a parade while still a 'competitor' in a competition.

Here more pics:

Yes, these are VT1A versions, do you know if Peru is looking for infantry fighting vehicles also.

 

[eckherl]

That is the twin brother of Al-Khalid tank. VT1A is a basic version of Type 99 for export (from china) to developing countries, being closer to AlKhaild it can be integrated with necessary system if required by customer and if the customer wants it cheap, its basic configuration as VT1A.
Summarizing it ,VT1A is just a basic tank comfigration out of which one have to make an AlKhalid for himself!
I think it's even more economical than Al-Khalid & it will serve the purpose .

Yes they call it the younger brother to Al-khalid, and if I am not mistaken China will ensure that some of the technologies that both tanks will share will have the okay nod from Pakistan before they are implemented, especially with some of the upgrades that are planned for future Al-Khalid series.

 

[shag]

Yes they call it the younger brother to Al-khalid.

I have heard that myself.
But could you explain why VT1A is heavier than Al-Khalid?? Its a little confusing. Is there some additional or old(heavier by weight ) armour on it or somthing? how similar are they?

 

[eckherl]

I do agree to that.

I don't consider T-80UD to be a sub-par tank in anyway. But MBT 2000/type-96 Derivatives are export oriented tanks now and they are not the most formidable tanks that chinese are building, That title would probably go to the WZ-123 or Type-99. Which from the limited specs available/claimed on it can be considered a decent tank.[/QUOTE]

The thing is with so much competition that is out there you have to offer a good capable package to get the sale, especially during these economic times, the botom line is that upgrade packages can be offered for this model that can make it a even match on the battlefield, China is no different than other tank producing countries, when initial design is implemented they look at what future advancements can be installed to keep it around for awhile and still capable on future battlefields, let me use Russia and Ukraine for example, the all welded turret design upgrade for T- 80 was initially designed more than likely back in the mid to late 80's, how long did it take before this new turret configuration was added, this has given the T-series some life extension. Just waite and see what Russia decides to do with the T-90 future upgrade.

As a side note, you cannot really get straight answers on vehicle weights, numbers are deceptive on purpose with some of the tank producers that are out there.

 

[eckherl]

I have heard that myself.
But could you explain why VT1A is heavier than Al-Khalid?? Its a little confusing. Is there some additional or old(heavier by weight ) armour on it or somthing? how similar are they?

Please do not go by advertised weight classifications, numbers can be deceptive, with that said let me add that different electronic upgrades or secondary armor packages can add weight to a vehicle, compare hull armor on Al-Khalid versus VT1A, also please look at turret side armor of both vehicles.

 

[shag]

Please do not go by advertised weight classifications, numbers can be deceptive, with that said let me add that different electronic upgrades or secondary armor packages can add weight to a vehicle, compare hull armor on Al-Khalid versus VT1A, also please look at turret side armor of both vehicles.

yeah but I noticed some similarities there but not much more than those between type 90IIM and type-98. I think that much similarity can be expected from two tanks with a common origin country and small generation gap isn't it?

 

[eckherl]

yeah but I noticed some similarities there but not much more than those between type 90IIM and type-98. I think that much similarity can be expected from two tanks with a common origin country and small generation gap isn't it?

Agreed, basic model will show their true form until future upgrade packages are implemented, upgrades that each country will use more than likely will depend on future threats in their area of operation.

 

[SURB]

Yes they call it the younger brother to Al-khalid, and if I am not mistaken China will ensure that some of the technologies that both tanks will share will have the okay nod from Pakistan before they are implemented, especially with some of the upgrades that are planned for future Al-Khalid series.

That's right deals are finalized with a mutual understanding between NORINCO & Pakistan(both being partners).
Pakistan has good customer relations in Arab countries same will apply if Pakistan exported (AL-KHALID) it to Saude Arabia.

 

[DavidDCM]

The MBT-2000 is a very fine tank and would serve the Peruvian army well, but who knows, this parade might just be a bargaining trick. By showing around the Chinese tanks, the can put some pressure on the other contenders. "See Russians and Poles, we are already parading the Chinese tanks around, but if you beat down the price just a little more we may still buy your tank."

 

[Architect]

Confirmed

It's just confirmed, thursday 10 December, 2 pm

The president confirm the adquisition. He made a comment concerning he don't need to explain every thing to the journalist, even the color or the underware of the militars (not joke).
He says it's a security issue the future configuartion of the tank.

Here in the media and Peruvian forums there are frenetic discutions about if it is a good or bad choise. Don't forget they have to mach the Chilean Leopards 4, not T-72

 

[Type59]

Russians can also offer 360 degree sighting systems, you will more than likely see this on their next export upgrade package, please keep in mind that MBT 2000 armor layout is modular in design concept so newer capable kits can be offered, this is one of the benificial reasons why Pakistan stayed with this design.

On armor I found this pic relating to various Chinese ERA plates (below). Yes therefore armor can be upgraded. On T 90 that would add to cost if adding new panaromic sight, I am suprised that Indians have not asked for that upgrade with their purchase due to arjun has this sight. Writing to you last on T 90 thread you talked about BMS and that it is essential for any tank, has the T 90 have this option now? To me the competation is or has has been between the Polish, Chinese/Pakistanis and Ukrainians tanks, the other tanks have features that are not currently available for T 90. I expect you will correct me on that last paragraph, I will clarify if need be.

The MBT-2000 is a very fine tank and would serve the Peruvian army well, but who knows, this parade might just be a bargaining trick. By showing around the Chinese tanks, the can put some pressure on the other contenders. "See Russians and Poles, we are already parading the Chinese tanks around, but if you beat down the price just a little more we may still buy your tank."

I never heard of nation parading weapons that they are unsure of buying. If done before it is very rare.

 

[eckherl]

It's just confirmed, thursday 10 December, 2 pm

The president confirm the adquisition. He made a comment concerning he don't need to explain every thing to the journalist, even the color or the underware of the militars (not joke).
He says it's a security issue the future configuartion of the tank.

Here in the media and Peruvian forums there are frenetic discutions about if it is a good or bad choise. Don't forget they have to mach the Chilean Leopards 4, not T-72

Thats what I am hearing also, China and Peru have also signed a couple of other agreements, what are you hearing in regards to those.

 

[eckherl]

On armor I found this pic relating to various Chinese ERA plates (below). Yes therefore armor can be upgraded. On T 90 that would add to cost if adding new panaromic sight, I am suprised that Indians have not asked for that upgrade with their purchase due to arjun has this sight. Writing to you last on T 90 thread you talked about BMS and that it is essential for any tank, has the T 90 have this option now? To me the competation is or has has been between the Polish, Chinese/Pakistanis and Ukrainians tanks, the other tanks have features that are not currently available for T 90. I expect you will correct me on that last paragraph, I will clarify if need be.

I am hearing that Russia very well may come out with a BMS system along with Relikt armor upgrade package, I have to laugh about that one seeings how alot of folks thought that it could only be accomplished on older T-72 series when in fact it is a better fit with the welded turret design concept, either way we may see a slightly modified T-90 or one that will go through a extensive upgrade in the near future, including all the latest and greatest electronic toys, T-90 can also quite easily recieve these modifications.

The photo that you referenced does show some of the ERA packages that are available, but one must wonder what could actually be lurking inside the main turret protection configuration, cleary this area also can be upgraded if warranted.