Crusader2000
Banned Member
You brought up the Saudi's and how the Typhoons used US Equipment. I just pointed out the threats to the Saudi's was very different than the threats to the Japanese.
Splitting hairs again???
F-35 Multirole Joint Strike Fighter
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You brought up the Saudi's and how the Typhoons used US Equipment. I just pointed out the threats to the Saudi's was very different than the threats to the Japanese.
Splitting hairs again???
And why is that? please share with us. you really need to eleborate why . so at least i can understand your claims . What have the Chinese done to make you think theirsso called future 5th gen fighter will be anything near eurofighter? its like you assume only because of the generation termonlogy used by manufactures these days. you're aware that it does not exist a universal generation scale right?Even if the Japanese Purchase the Typhoon off shelf today. (i.e. very unlikely) It will still be several years before it entered service in any worth while numbers.
BTW Unless both the Russia and Chinese 5th Generation Designs turn out to be total failures. Its very unlikely that the Typhoon will be able to match there performance.
and like i previously stated. its not like EF will stop evolve technology speaking.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
No, I just contend that the F-22 and F-35 are superior to the Typhoon. Further, while it has hardly been proven. Its "likely" that the Russian PAK-FA and Chinese J-XX will also prove to be superior in performance when they enter service. Which, is hardly a poor reflection on the Typhoon. As all of the aforementioned designs came later. The latter two much later............
Crusader2000
Banned Member
Well, the most important factor holding back the Typhoon. Will of course be its airframe. Which, can never be totally stealthy nor take advantage of internal weapons carriage. Two very big advantages when comparing 4/4.5 Generation Fighters with 5th Generation Types.
Look you still "think" because it will be called 5th gen and is under development right now.
China declained a joint venture with Russia for the PAK-FA project. not because they tought they had superior technology and will be able to make a world-killer platform but because they believe they can manufacture something equal or better than PAK-FA i really cant see how Russia and China will be even close to make something like the US counter parts afterall US have 50 years of experience.
So please drop the generation termonolgy for now, and give us some arguments why these future platforms will be far superior, what kind of indications have you to support your claims?
and to say: it will have stealth characteristics or a stealth design. is not enough.
So what you basically say is: a stealth designed platform with internal weaponbay make a platform superior to others? do i undertand you correctly?
according to you: all plattforms will be surples when F-35, Pak-FA and JXX enter service.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
I am saying that in the case of the F-22 and F-35. The advantages of Stealth and Internal Weapons. Has many advantages over older Generation Fighters...............
BTW Those same advantages are being copied by the Russian and Chinese. Further, I know of no country. That has the technology and resources to develop a 5th Generation Fighter. That wouldn't include both Stealth and Internal Weapons. (Japan and South Korea for example)
I dont think Russia and China will be able to produce anything close to F-35 on their first attempt. it toke US 50 years to be where they are today. so because PAK-FA and JXX will look similar to F-35/F-22 you assume they will probably be on the same level! and therefor will EF be inferior. and not suited for Japanese.. this is way OFF topic so no need to clarify or engage in further debate on this topic. we disagree and its that happens from time to time..
Crusader2000
Banned Member
Thats a very risky assumption with the defense of your country on the line!
As for Russia and China not being able to match or beat the Typhoon. Consider that nobody believed just a few short years ago that China could produce a fighter of the J-10 Caliber. Also, if you want to discuss first attempts. Just look at the Russian's back in the 70's and 80's. At which time they flew the Mig-23 and Mig-25. Which, were totally out classed by Western Types like the F14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, and Mirage 2000! What did they counter the West with? Some thing called the Mig-29 and Su-27 FLANKER.
Crusader2000
Banned Member
The Avoinics and Weapons may change and be upgraded over time on the Typhoon. Yet, as I stated earlier. The Platform itself will not...............
Clearly, the first Generation F-16A is not nearly as capable as a F-16C Blk 50. Yet, neither will be as capable as a F-35. Regardless, how much either are upgraded............
sigh.
sth korea, israel, and signapore have bugger all left to pick from. the fleet contracts are established - those fleet contracts cover all aircraft builds - irrespective of which country is buying them.
ie its only small work left. none of which is going to cover off the intended appetite to get a substantial body of work to keep local industry busy for the next 30 years of build and TLS.
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This thread needs to stay on topic or OT posts run the risk of being deleted.
the road runner
Active Member
DEFENCE FORUM NEWS
US mulling Japanese participation in F-35 fighter: report | Air Force News at Defense Talk
Having read about Japan being intrested in the JSF program,i now wonder what other partner nations will think about Japan being part of the JSF Team.
From a technological point of View i think Japan would be a Asset in the JSF program.
But when i read that Japan bans weapons and arms-technology exports,I tend to think that Japan may be getting a free ride?Another point of view would be appreciated..........
Now as the JSF matures i would think Countrys intrested in the project now would have to purchase the Aircraft and not become a Partner in the JSF Project.
As Japan and the USA are very close allies and Japan dose rely on the US for Fighter Aircraft,will this mean that Japan just gets a seat at the JSF table with no uproar from other partner nations.........
If the US decides to let Japan into the JSF team,is it the US decision only?
Or
More likley am i missing a few points.....
There is a Quote in the below link stating.............
http://www.defencetalk.com/f-2-production-nearing-an-end-23537/
"Should the F-22 remain unavailable, the F-35 would be the likely choice for the F-X contract. Initial F-X orders appear unlikely to be placed until at least 2011."
Just found that quote intresting
Regards
and a Happy New year for 2010 to all members..........
US mulling Japanese participation in F-35 fighter: report | Air Force News at Defense Talk
Having read about Japan being intrested in the JSF program,i now wonder what other partner nations will think about Japan being part of the JSF Team.
From a technological point of View i think Japan would be a Asset in the JSF program.
But when i read that Japan bans weapons and arms-technology exports,I tend to think that Japan may be getting a free ride?Another point of view would be appreciated..........
Now as the JSF matures i would think Countrys intrested in the project now would have to purchase the Aircraft and not become a Partner in the JSF Project.
As Japan and the USA are very close allies and Japan dose rely on the US for Fighter Aircraft,will this mean that Japan just gets a seat at the JSF table with no uproar from other partner nations.........
If the US decides to let Japan into the JSF team,is it the US decision only?
Or
More likley am i missing a few points.....
There is a Quote in the below link stating.............
http://www.defencetalk.com/f-2-production-nearing-an-end-23537/
"Should the F-22 remain unavailable, the F-35 would be the likely choice for the F-X contract. Initial F-X orders appear unlikely to be placed until at least 2011."
Just found that quote intresting
Regards
and a Happy New year for 2010 to all members..........
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t68
Well-Known Member
Yes it certainly appears they are going to get a free ride out of it, considering they were after F-22 Raptor.
I don’t know what they could bring to the table at this stage of the game considering all the hard work has been done already.
If we were not in a pickle about having to replace the legacy Hornets i would not mind them taking the early production slots that we have so the Japanese could iron out the bugs instead of Australia and quite possible the US will part pay for.
Happy New Year to all.
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
AND
1st, Happy New Year everyone.
Secondly, having read through the article, one has to pay clear attention to what it says, specifically:
[QUOTE]Tokyo's participation would be limited to developing components to be provided exclusively to its air defence force [/QUOTE]
Pay particular attention to the bolded text. The fleet contracts for component manufacture are already let out at this point, if one reads back earlier in the thread, there is mention were some minor subcomponents can be negotiated at to who would build what for specific customer orders. With respect to possible Japanese involvement with the JSF, it looks to be more in the nature of if Japan wanted to fit their own AESA instead of using the planned APG-81, or a domestic RWR, missiles, etc. In short, if there are specific items which Japan uses operationally, Japan will be allowed to develop/adapt them for use from the JSF.
My impression has been that different JSF users will potentially slightly different fitouts with respect to mission systems, depending on the individual air forces/air arms which have the JSF enter service. IIRC that has/had been a sticking point between the UK and the US, where the UK wanted to have the information needed to perform systems modifications, upogrades and/or updates without being dependent on US involvement or assistance.
If that is the case, then I do not imagine too many partners would have problems with that, as it essentially just impacts Japan. Now, if the issue was more significant, like the Japanese aircraft and/or subcomponents would be built in Japan and not be part of any of the fleet contracts, I would imagine that partner nations would take issue with that and rightfully so.
-Cheers
Its not just systems fit out issues - its procurement issues that could potentially conflict with her current constitutional hand brakes that prevent Japan from trading militarily with anyone except the US.
where parts are made by the Danes, Canadians, Australians, Norwegians etc... then potentially they would be illegal under her current political constraints.
Its the same issue that bedevils us all when we exercise with Japan in RIMPAC
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