dragonfire
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Is the Indian version going to have the same Engine, if so there shouldnt be money issues since India is supposed to support the program financialy
PAK-FA / T-50: Russian 5th Generation Fighter
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I think its more time than money, Designing a new core is no small task
some things can be rushed, some can not. There most likely getting into higher compressor temps so the blades may need new materials and most likely manufacturing techniques.No small task and a lot of trial and error.
I don't think anyone has seen the shape of the nose cone. The radar doesn't have to be the same shape as the cover. You can put a round peg in a square hole but not vice versa
There wont be anything coming forth from MiG, that could credibly called a separate concept, in my opinion. They barely avoid being absorped into the Sukhoi-complex by means of the UAC these days. As long as they cannot find more cash from credible exports, MiG is not going anywhere.
The very initial concept of PAKFA included two aircraft, one single-engined, one with two engines. Basically a F-22/F-35 idea in one family package. However these ideas were shelved years ago due to cost. It will be interesting to see how exactly the workshare will be arranged for PAKFA, as far as Sukhoi and MiG are concerned. I havent read much about that yet.
As far as the Indians are concerned, there seems to be nil credible information beyond the fact that they, in one way or another, contribute financially to this effort. There is a lot of politically motivated lip-service to a cooperative effort, but as far as the Russians are concerned, they really just try to dig up more cash to pour into PAKFA-development. What exactly they are getting out of it remains to be seen really.
PhysicsMan
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There were statements suggesting that the Russians will use the Indian expertise with advanced materials (not clear whether for the frame or the coatings or something else...)
Excellent analysis mate, especially the part about "lip service". Brazil has a MOU with Russia to participate as "observers" in the PAK FA development. So far the Brazilians have not "observed" anything relative to PAK FA.
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But not not from the opinion of MIG former director whose interview I posted somewhere around a while ago while the same was still MIGs director.
Well will see about that. Mig-1.44/Su-47 where build and flown while Russians where standing in a line for a piece of bread.
Im not familiar about anything shelving PAK-FA but still claim MIG 5th generation will pop up somewhere about 2015.
There has not being mutch credible information about PAK-FA at all. Hell we did not seen even pics of it at MAKS-2009 or even credible artist redention but you would like to know finantial construction about PAK-FA ... you are some optimist.
One way or the other India agreed to go for it so they gona pay soner or later.
Victor:
I wasnt talking about the current PAKFA-program being shelved. Read again please, I said that the idea of a PAKFA-family of two aircraft, a light and a medium/heavy one, was shelved. I can dig up an official statement by one of the developers to this effect, but it was quite some time ago, at least three years. What he said was effectively that development of the single-engine variant was postponed indefinitely, which means "cancelled" in Russian vocabulary.
As far as MiG is concerned, their Projekt 1.42 or whatever we want to call it, was revealed a long time ago, and basically they did the same back then as Sukhoi with the S-37. They used whatever R&D they had left from Soviet times and funding and poured it into a demonstration of what they are capable of, IF there would be a future domestic contract. It was a competition of some sorts, since both aircraft showed comparable mission roles (similar weight class and capabilities) in the face of the fledgling PAKFA-ideas. But if the Russians ever considered giving both companies a go individually, this certainly changed with the lack of success of MiG in exports, while Sukhoi did very well overall, generating some hard cash for future projects.
Now I can certainly understand why any director of MiG wants to point out that the company still produces top-notch technology. But from the lack of hard facts, no timeframes given, no financial details and so on, its also clear that they are basically shouting out loud in order to communicate "we are still here", nothing more. They do not have solid domestic funding, that much is obvious, and even purchases by the Russian Air Force are symbolic in nature (like their bail-out buy of the flawed Algerian units). Again this is in stark contrast to what treatment Sukhoi is getting in the last couple of years. If MiG fails to secure a signifcant foreign order for the Mig-35, their troubles will just get worse.
I wasnt talking about the current PAKFA-program being shelved. Read again please, I said that the idea of a PAKFA-family of two aircraft, a light and a medium/heavy one, was shelved. I can dig up an official statement by one of the developers to this effect, but it was quite some time ago, at least three years. What he said was effectively that development of the single-engine variant was postponed indefinitely, which means "cancelled" in Russian vocabulary.
As far as MiG is concerned, their Projekt 1.42 or whatever we want to call it, was revealed a long time ago, and basically they did the same back then as Sukhoi with the S-37. They used whatever R&D they had left from Soviet times and funding and poured it into a demonstration of what they are capable of, IF there would be a future domestic contract. It was a competition of some sorts, since both aircraft showed comparable mission roles (similar weight class and capabilities) in the face of the fledgling PAKFA-ideas. But if the Russians ever considered giving both companies a go individually, this certainly changed with the lack of success of MiG in exports, while Sukhoi did very well overall, generating some hard cash for future projects.
Now I can certainly understand why any director of MiG wants to point out that the company still produces top-notch technology. But from the lack of hard facts, no timeframes given, no financial details and so on, its also clear that they are basically shouting out loud in order to communicate "we are still here", nothing more. They do not have solid domestic funding, that much is obvious, and even purchases by the Russian Air Force are symbolic in nature (like their bail-out buy of the flawed Algerian units). Again this is in stark contrast to what treatment Sukhoi is getting in the last couple of years. If MiG fails to secure a signifcant foreign order for the Mig-35, their troubles will just get worse.
Viktor is right - several times by guys from MiG was said that are WORKING ON PROGRAM LMFI - light multi-functional fighter. May be it is their own initiative, may be not - BUT THEY WORK ON THIS PROGRAM.
Now it was an order for 48 MiG-35 and 60 SU (48 SU-35, 4 SU-30MK2,18 SU-27SM) all of them ARE NEW AC, not modernization of old airframes. Su-30MK2 and Su-27SM were those which production was stopped some time ago due to lack of money.
And forget about 1.44 and 1.42
they were built for PAK-FA programe but they lost
Now it is a new project, may be with some use of parts of 1.44 and 1.42
Now it was an order for 48 MiG-35 and 60 SU (48 SU-35, 4 SU-30MK2,18 SU-27SM) all of them ARE NEW AC, not modernization of old airframes. Su-30MK2 and Su-27SM were those which production was stopped some time ago due to lack of money.
And forget about 1.44 and 1.42
they were built for PAK-FA programe but they lost
Now it is a new project, may be with some use of parts of 1.44 and 1.42
Scorpion82
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I have nowhere seen a reference about the MiG-35. BTW the contract for Sukhoi is for 64 aircraft and there are only 12 not 18 airframes.
When should this Mig-35-order have happened? The only "new" Migs they are getting, are the ones from the bail-out buy from Algeria. The contract for 48 fighters relates to the Su-35 which were ordered at MAKS 2009 as part of the 64 aircraft-package from Sukhoi. The latest talk about Mig-35 for the Russian Airforce, at least to my limited knowledge, took place in February, when the MiG-director, somewhat hopeful, indicated that the Russians MIGHT purchase something like 25 to 30 Mig-35 sometime in the future (he mentioned the next three years and a final decision on the buy in 2010). This was in light of an earlier decline to purchase Mig-29 on behalf of the Air Force.
That information was published by ITAR-TASS, February 02, 2009.
The only talk ever since concerning Mig-35 sales related to the ongoing competition in India.
That information was published by ITAR-TASS, February 02, 2009.
The only talk ever since concerning Mig-35 sales related to the ongoing competition in India.
in one interview RuAF commander said that first MiG-35S (serial) could be recieved in 2013-2014 year. He also said and not only he, that RuAF will order 2 suadrons - 48 AC
http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/4673/
Here is in Russian, sorry for that. Visotskiy said that at it was planned to modernize MiG-29 to variant MiG-29M(M2) but due to financial problems this program was not started and now they decided to buy NEW AC
http://www.militaryparitet.com/teletype/data/ic_teletype/4673/
Here is in Russian, sorry for that. Visotskiy said that at it was planned to modernize MiG-29 to variant MiG-29M(M2) but due to financial problems this program was not started and now they decided to buy NEW AC
So it relates to the same statement by RSK MiG that I mentioned above.
Well, we just need to keep in mind here that this, for the time being, remains wishful thinking. Its not a contract as opposed to what Sukhoi got at MAKS 2009.
I have no doubts that the government will try to keep MiG afloat, so such a contract might be quite possible. The timeframe indicates though, that they are waiting for what comes out of the Indian competition and maybe other opportunities abroad.
Well, we just need to keep in mind here that this, for the time being, remains wishful thinking. Its not a contract as opposed to what Sukhoi got at MAKS 2009.
I have no doubts that the government will try to keep MiG afloat, so such a contract might be quite possible. The timeframe indicates though, that they are waiting for what comes out of the Indian competition and maybe other opportunities abroad.
MiG is now in poor situation without firm orders - government and MoD must place this order for 48 to help MiG and replace some part of old MiG-29 in VVS. Also it is not so cheap to Modernize old first series MiG-29 to level MiG-35. It is better to buy new AC. Also this order will save many workplaces in MiG and it partners.
Also this order will help to move MiG-35 to the world market - nobody wants to buy AC which is not liked in its birthplace
Scorpion82
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Well RAC MiG is contracted to deliver the MiG-29SMT not accepted by Algeria and a while ago I read that the russian MoD considers buying the MiG-29K for the Navy, albeit I think they will ultimately spent the money on upgrading the Su-27K.
A MiG-35 in RuAF service is as old as the redesignated demonstrator. The problem is RAC MiG haven't completed a single airframe to date. A representive prototype was scheduled to fly in late 2008, so far we haven't seen anything. The MiG-35 is simply not mature enough to be delivered earlier than 2013-2014. And I have to agree with Turin, as long as no contract is signed we should wait. Russian officials claim a lot when the day is long, but reality often looks different.
A MiG-35 in RuAF service is as old as the redesignated demonstrator. The problem is RAC MiG haven't completed a single airframe to date. A representive prototype was scheduled to fly in late 2008, so far we haven't seen anything. The MiG-35 is simply not mature enough to be delivered earlier than 2013-2014. And I have to agree with Turin, as long as no contract is signed we should wait. Russian officials claim a lot when the day is long, but reality often looks different.
MiG-35 was at India arms show. And even one former Indian general flew on it =)
MiG-35 is as old as F-16I and F/A-18 E/F of last blocks.
I didn't heard anything about buying MiG-29K for RuAF.
MiG have now two contracts - one for Siria MiG-29 and one for India MiG-29K. May be India would order more of them - that's all
Scorpion82
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I speak about a new built aircraft not the former MiG-29M prototype (no 154). The aircraft currently flying hasn't that much to do with the proposed variant, from which we have to see a production representive prototype. The current "MiG-35" is an avionics testbed. The airframe of a final production variant will be new and should be closer to the MiG-29K as ordered by India. So far no such aircraft has been unveiled.
The MiG-29K is not intended for the RuAF, but the navy as I wrote above.
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