It's a Russian project. Same deep modernization project exists for T-72.
U wont find anything reliable in open sources, almost all information about this is closed. (or was, a few months ago)
T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour
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U wont find anything reliable in open sources, almost all information about this is closed. (or was, a few months ago)
The Bekaa Valley in 1982, and the Gulf War part I. So, lets keep this all in perspective shall we, every Russian MBT that has made an appearance on the battlefield has been defeated by western MBT's for the last 50 plus years.
Where is the Battlefield evidence? Where are the facts,
Look who had the tanks Syria and Iraq as everyone know do not have the correct training or tactics for there tanks. When this tank is hands of a experience crew members it would a different story.Not one professional army with proper training with air cover and proper tactics fought against western tank in a battle. the t-90 in a professional army could do damage it all the about the training the crew recieves
Where is the Battlefield evidence? Where are the facts,
Look who had the tanks Syria and Iraq as everyone know do not have the correct training or tactics for there tanks. When this tank is hands of a experience crew members it would a different story.Not one professional army with proper training with air cover and proper tactics fought against western tank in a battle. the t-90 in a professional army could do damage it all the about the training the crew recieves
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Crew training/ integrated tactical MBT use
Justone,
Legitimate point. Though slightly off-topic. Comparison of armour vs. armour is pointless without taking into account crew training, tactics , level of support by other parts of military machine - learn from the WWII experience...
Justone,
Legitimate point. Though slightly off-topic. Comparison of armour vs. armour is pointless without taking into account crew training, tactics , level of support by other parts of military machine - learn from the WWII experience...
Then, it goes without saying that an Abrams with an experienced crew can also wreak havoc. The same applies to every tank out there. It's not what tools a person has, it's what they do with them.
Speaking of air-power, I must say, the US Air-force must've had a nice picnic while putting 30mm AP rounds into monkey models without being bothered about missile systems like the SA-6. Were there any reports of Shilkas or any AA cannons taking out any tank busters? What I do know is that in one instance, an entire flight of Apaches were forced to withdraw after being barraged with 125mm fire from T-72s.
FutureTank
Banned Member
There was discussion of this "Burlak" late last year on at least one Russian forum. I didn't see any mention of T-80UB though.
There was a suggestion that the Burlak is a T-80 chassis with a T-90S turret, because both will share same training simulators.
For those who read Russian, there is a cached discussion here ???????????? ???? > ???????? ? ????????????? ????????????
If anything, the BUrlak would be derived from the T-80BU as in T-80B Usovershenstvovanny (upgraded/modernised)
At a guess this is a deep modernisation of the B models. The name is not given for no reason. Burlak was a type of workmen in 19th century, most commonly associated with pulling barges up rivers when harnessed into the barge in teams. The upgrade of the T-80 is likely to be just such a heavy task, requiring multiple agencies to undertake work that would ordinarily be going "against the flow" of past practice, that is design and building of a new tank which is neither required given relative Russian security, nor affordable in current economic climate.
my point, the US army has great training and tactics it would be different with highly trained professional army with T-90 where everything will be on even level ,think about it if you have a part your military unbalance a good army with take you easily. so if the game is even the T-90 have a good chance against western armoured. About any AA cannons taking out tank buster they didn't have a chance too much air power and about a T-72 making a apaches go away yeah later that T-72 was blown to bites
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Russia's air-force essentially pales in comparison to the American Air force in terms of pilot training. That's why there is such a high concentration on a large variety of SAM units. It's not that the Russian's don't fly, it's that they make sure no one else does. The SA-6 proved to be a great asset in the Yom Kippur War against Israeli aircraft.
As far as ground forces are concerned, yes T-90s can play a very destructive role on the enemy forces, so long as they are protected by an entire layer of AA systems.
And what is Russia's solution for an armored fighting vehicle in city/ urban environments. I've read of the BMPT, but is it combat tested?
FutureTank
Banned Member
yes, because the T-80 is a different chassis
To me it sounds like a desire to bring lots of T-80s to a T-90 level in some aspects, and the T-90s will get same kit. Of course they will still be different tanks in some respects, but the basis of the development is Object 640
Do you have a link with more serious info on the Burlak upgrade? From what I could tell on that forum, it's supposed to be a unification of the electronics between the two tanks. I didn't see the Object 640 mentioned as the unit from which the upgrades were derived.
FutureTank
Banned Member
This only lists the T-80 3.2 ???????? ?????? ?????. ????? 2 (?-80 ? ?-90) - ??????? ???????
FutureTank
Banned Member
Did you find Objekt 640?
It could be the discussion on the forum got it wrong, and it is the T-80 being upgraded tot he T-90 standard.
FutureTank
Banned Member
T-80U and T-80B
Probably T-80Us will get priority since the financial crisis is making defence budgets very unstable all over the world.
Given discussion on the forum, and that Burlak involves serious pulling, I can only suggest that there may be internal turret upgrades (that required 'pulling' money from budget), but also possibly, and only possibly, external armour upgrades that would require some powerplant modernisation also.
Burlak is a really strange name to give to a tank project in Russian, and it is already used for an air force engine and an AA missile I think, to I'm just reading between the lines and into semantics of the name for now.
That is what I'm trying to say. That site has good reputation for not jumping to conclusions, unlike forums. It only says Т-80У/Б «Бурлак» to be modernised at Omsk, not a "T-80UB" and the T-90s to be modernised. T-80U and T-80B are 25 year old production models, including those made in Kirov plant, that are probably only now getting deep upgrades, and are probably coming from storage bases, having entered conservation in the early 1990s.
Probably T-80Us will get priority since the financial crisis is making defence budgets very unstable all over the world.
Given discussion on the forum, and that Burlak involves serious pulling, I can only suggest that there may be internal turret upgrades (that required 'pulling' money from budget), but also possibly, and only possibly, external armour upgrades that would require some powerplant modernisation also.
Burlak is a really strange name to give to a tank project in Russian, and it is already used for an air force engine and an AA missile I think, to I'm just reading between the lines and into semantics of the name for now.
The internet forum quoted documents (which coincidetanlly, I have seen somewhere else before).
Later in the document when describing the requirements for the training equipment:
I.e. the assignment is to develop training equipment for the above-listed tanks.
Here it says that the program is meant to design training equipment for T-72B, T-72B1, T-80U, T-80BV, T-90, and T-80U and T-90 modernization by the Burlak program. It seems to me like the Burlak isn't a tank variant. It's a modernization program for T-80 and T-90 tanks.
Later in the document when describing the requirements for the training equipment:
I.e. the Burlak is a variant for both T-90 and T-80 tanks. Towards the bottom of the page, the members start claiming that this is a unified turret electronics for the two tanks, which is quite possible.
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And it looks liek Cyprus will be getting T-80U afterall. They're out of production and OTM is dead. However it's production facilities have been acquired by UVZ. It theoretically is possible to restard production, but given massive recent cuts to the tank fleet (rumors say only about 3000 MBTs will be in active inventory after these reforms) it shouldn't be hard to either find some spare T-80U or to upgrade some T-80BV.
The original announcement was not a mistake, they did originally plan to get the T-90A, but now have changed their mind. I'm guessing it was an issue of logistics.
It's interesting to note that the T-80U will also get a new thermals from a joint venture between Belarussian firm Peleng and Thales. Something that has already been done to the in-service T-80U in Cyprus.
And it looks liek Cyprus will be getting T-80U afterall. They're out of production and OTM is dead. However it's production facilities have been acquired by UVZ. It theoretically is possible to restard production, but given massive recent cuts to the tank fleet (rumors say only about 3000 MBTs will be in active inventory after these reforms) it shouldn't be hard to either find some spare T-80U or to upgrade some T-80BV.
The original announcement was not a mistake, they did originally plan to get the T-90A, but now have changed their mind. I'm guessing it was an issue of logistics.
It's interesting to note that the T-80U will also get a new thermals from a joint venture between Belarussian firm Peleng and Thales. Something that has already been done to the in-service T-80U in Cyprus.
Folks are talking about the gun and the design doctrine. All the guns are designed to do the same thing and the gun tech hasn't changed much. The differance is the armor.
The M1 has that super "secret" armor that stops everything. The current model of the Abrams isn't just about surviving a direct hit, but not being effected by it and returning fire.
If you are still interested, please check YTPO.ru: Â öåíòðå Ìîñêâû ðàçâàëèëîñü çäàíèå - they had a pst yesterday , quoting a Russian general saying that "THE Georgian trophy tanks were taken just for evaluation in order to find out how they work with Western upgrades...."
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