T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour
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Actually the Chinese came out with the all welded turret design in the mid eighties for this tank and all future tanks. You will find that the late T-90 welded turret resembles the Ukrianian T-84 turret, most likely because Russia already had this in the works on giving the T-80 this upgrade for turret protection, Ukrainians just followed thru with it after the Soviet collapse. There were alot of Russians in military circles who wanted to just keep the T-80 series and grow on that design, most likely the same group that thougt the BMP 3 sucked and did not know how to implement into the land force structure.
FutureTank
Banned Member
Of course the T-72 SIM-1 (by the way a suggestion in one forum is that its Sim-1, or Siman-1, meaning Mark.1 in Hebrew) is not meant for the front line service what with thousands of later upgraded T-72s still in Russian stores, never mind T-80s. However, I can not imagine the Russian Army dumping 41 tanks somewhere to rust either. The parts for the thermal imagers can be freely obtained in Israel.
The tanks are probably not going to go to the 42nd division which had complained before the conflict that its supposedly all-professional personnel were being issued with museum pieces of equipment, including T-62Ms from the Afghanistan war. It seems to me that issuing them to the South Ossetian or Abkhazian troops would be too much of an insult, besides their technical vulnerabilities being known to the Georgians only too well.
I'll keep an eye on these, but I can't imagine this sort of waste of money still goes on in the Russian Army that 41 tanks will be left to rust somewhere after the money expended in securing them (reportedly 2.5 billion roubles a day?).
Did you see the images of all the upgrades being off the tanks and examined in the previously mentioned Institute?
I think that they are parading them around to to give the U.S, Israel and Ukraine the middle finger so to speak, they have a good thermal package from Thales that is just as good if not better. What a shame to see perfect tanks that were abandoned instead of putting up a fight, goes to show what happens when good equipment is given to untrained crews.
I guess Russia should be content that there wasn`t assholes like me roaming around in that county side, we would of hit them when we had a advantage, night time. Did we ever get our Humvees back.
Go ahead, I will also contribute additional pictures now that I have finally organized them in proper folders.
Is anything more known about the modernizations that the Georgian tanks received? We all saw photos of those Sim1 tanks during the conflict and they did not look like the upgrades where extensive. If not the IR searchlight had been replaced by two ERA bricks I would not even have suspected them to have thermals, because the "new" sight looks exactly like the old IR-sight (TPN-3) of regular T-72s.
But future tank, you got to ask the question whether it would really be more cost effective for Russia to put them into service. If not only the thermals but also other systems in the tank have been replaced with non-Russian stuff that would have to be bought from foreign sources than it might proof very costly for Russia to keep these things running and not cost-effective in comparison to just using their own stuff.
But future tank, you got to ask the question whether it would really be more cost effective for Russia to put them into service. If not only the thermals but also other systems in the tank have been replaced with non-Russian stuff that would have to be bought from foreign sources than it might proof very costly for Russia to keep these things running and not cost-effective in comparison to just using their own stuff.
FutureTank
Banned Member
See this forum http://www.waronline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=358577&sid=1dff3cdc63852730402bc52203170049 for pictures of the components removed from the Georgian T-72s. Its in Russian, but it doesn't take much to guess what bit does what.
These are combat-ready tanks we are talking about. Russians blew up about 20 of the older T-72s in place without bothering to cart them off. I would think that these tanks would last at least some time without needing major repairs. They could be used as the thermal imaging use in the T-80/90 units if nothing else to save on using new equipment. If they don't want them, I'll get one to drive to the shops
I always have problems finding a parking space By the way, the word is that T-64s can be had for USD$100,000. Of course be prepared for a complete engine overhaul, and don't forget to ask for a spare transmission
All modifications were internal, FCS, GPS and advanced communication equipment similar to SINGARS, compliments of the U.S.
metalkat 77
New Member
Well I'm not from Russia but I have unde4rstand, about russian military technology is design to suport hard conditiosn I mean conditions in some conflict the infrastruture get devastated the russian gear can operate whithout manutinance or reposition of parts wich could broke in the batle.
Talking about the tank well people say that the T-90 is superior at his american counterpart the only tanks which have the capability to meke them sweet are the Leopard 2-A and Merkava experts in this issue say there are the only tw tanks which they kick their bot, But lets the experete handle this about the technisism my opinion is only in about I was documentated.
Talking about the tank well people say that the T-90 is superior at his american counterpart the only tanks which have the capability to meke them sweet are the Leopard 2-A and Merkava experts in this issue say there are the only tw tanks which they kick their bot, But lets the experete handle this about the technisism my opinion is only in about I was documentated.
Very interesting link. Thanks for posting it
In the picture showing the head of the thermal you can see very good that it's different sight than the original Russian one but still has the same overall shape and size. I put the site into the translator of babelfish.altavista.com and it worked quite well
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Marsh Again
New Member
Really? Blimey! I am impressed by your vast knowledge of armour technology!
T-34? T-64 mean anythng to you?
Thought not.......
Marsh
Occidental tanks? You mean like accidental tanks?
nikola_281
New Member
Well, he means the Western tanks.
Small advice Templario, next time say it that it was your opinion (unless you are the world wide known expert on armour technology and things you are saying can be considered as universal truth) or refrain yourself from such kind of comments as you are risking to trigger another great flame war.
Regards,
Nikola
SIM-1's and Humvees
Those mysterious Humvees were taken by Russian special forces well inside Georgia proper while port of Poti and and military base near Zugdidi were occupied.Immediate reports said they carried some interesting satellite communication equipment. Fancy toys...
Highly unlikely to be commissioned to service -for this they would need to be up(down-)graded to one of the modifications currently in service. Quite possibly will be given to South Osstians or Abkhazians.
Those mysterious Humvees were taken by Russian special forces well inside Georgia proper while port of Poti and and military base near Zugdidi were occupied.Immediate reports said they carried some interesting satellite communication equipment. Fancy toys...
I agree with you totally, that is what I was trying to convey to Futuretank in a few of my posts. Thanks, that is what I figured happened to the Humvees, initially I figured that they surely would of removed all sensitive items, but that doesn`t seem to be the case with my jarhead companions.
Hi. I notice you're new around here. Welcome to defencetalk. Please do read the rules and enjoy your stay.
Oh and by the way, I wasn't aware that a UB variant existed of the T-80 tank.
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