MiG News

[nevidimka]

I quote from another website:

The Indian Navy recently took delivery of its MiG-29K full-mission flight simulator from Germany’s Rheinmetall Defence Electronics GmbH (RDE) and this training aid will be commissioned into service at Dabolim by the year’s end (2008). Final systems check-outs are now underway. The full-mission simulator comes equipped with the Evans & Sutherland-built Avior high-fidelity stereoscopic laser-based image projection system. For the MiG-29K aircrew it will ensure an exceptionally high degree of realism in simulating take-offs and landings on an aircraft carrier. In simulating a night landing, for example, the lights of the runway can be simulated extremely vividly.

These simulators are so realistic, ground based carrier take off-landing training on mockups are not required by its makers. Pilots can straight away progress to the real carrier from the simulators.
The deal of the MiG 29 K will go on regardless of whether India buys the Gorshkov or not, because the MiG 29 K will also form the air wing of the Indian Carrier projects as has already been stated by the Indian military.

 

[ROCK45]

Simulators

Thanks nevidimka very useful and interesting information nice to see some forward steps.

 

[dragonfire]

Need Confirmation

I read somewhere that India has ordered some 26 additional Mig-29 Ks apart from the 19 earlier ordered for carrier based ops for the navy, can anyone confirm this ?. Does this mean the total no of Mig-29K with the Indian Navy would be 45

 

[ROCK45]

Not confirmed

I read that as well from a Indian news site nothing confirmed I didn't save it sorry. Can't seem to find it now strange?

I did find from this site a May 2nd date for delivery but don't know the source?
http://www.idrw.org/2008/03/14/russia_to_start_supplying_mig29k_fighters_to_india_in_may__2.html

 

[Feanor]

As far as I know India has indeed opted for the additional 26 aircraft. A total of 45 are now to be delivered. This is one of the strongest factors (in my opinion) for the MiG-35 candidacy, as it shares significant commonality with the MiG-29K.

A side question, I know the IAF has signed a modernization contract for 63 Fulcrums with Russia, but I recall reading somewhere else that it operates a total of 90 MiG-29, in 5 squadrons of 18 aircraft. Is this correct? And if so, why only modernize part of the fleet?

 

[SkolZkiy]

India has 90 MiG-29 and there is an order for modernization but real numbers how many of them would be modernized I don't know - they got already several modernized MiG-29, it was in press.

By the way
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2009/03/10/168306.html
here is said that Su-35 and EF-2000 could be returned to Brazil tender FX-2 and if so then F-16 also would return.
it will be very interesting if this is true.

 

[ROCK45]

India Fulcrums

From what I gathered and please correct me if I mixed anything up is that India has sent 6 Fulcrums to Russia to be upgraded. India currently doesn't have upgraded Fulcrums. There are many different articles on this subject but as far as I know work has started on only the six Fulcrums sent to Russia. I can't seem to get an exact date when these aircraft were sent to Russia nor an expected return date.

Once these six Fulcrums return what was explain to me was a upgrade program would begin in India for the rest of India's Fulcrums. I don't know dates or even if the facility itself is even prepared to take on such a project. India's press seems to pop these type of Fulcrums articles / stories out almost daily, one can easily trace them back for three years now or more. Very similar to the Mirage 2000 project, even with that as far I know no actual work has started.

I agree 100% if this Mig-29 Fulcrum upgrade project were to actually take place MIG would have a huge inside track on the 126 never ending future aircraft bid.

I thought India had around 70 Fulcrums left from around 80+ delivered some were lost over the years. I'm sure other members would know and be better able to give Fulcrums counts.

 

[Salty Dog]

By the way
http://www.aviaport.ru/digest/2009/03/10/168306.html
here is said that Su-35 and EF-2000 could be returned to Brazil tender FX-2 and if so then F-16 also would return.
it will be very interesting if this is true.

Already addressed this. Please see here.

 

[IPA35]

A little while ago I read in this topic that the Russian state will buy a small number of MiG-35, but I haven't hear anything new about it.
Any news? Looking at the rusty MiG-29's...

 

[Feanor]

I have heard the same, and the timeframe discussed was iirc 2013-2015. I guess we'll have to wait.

 

[ROCK45]

Fulcrum question

Would RMAF Fulcrums be a worth while pick up for Peru? The the N model is comparable to Peru's SE model, same time line. Does anybody think a deal could be worked out? Might be a good way for Peru to pick up some more Fulcrums at a good price.

I don't think any work has started on the Peruvian Fulcrums a while back some sort of SMP upgraded was announced but can't seem to find anything on it now. Chile keeps piling up those Vipers so at some point one would expect Peru to start shopping.

RMAF MIG29 Jets To Be Phased Out - Zahid
BERNAMA - RMAF MIG29 Jets To Be Phased Out - Zahid

 

[Feanor]

I've heard the opposite in Russian press, that the RMAF Fulcrums will remain in service. They're only now finishing up receiving their MKM deliveries. They would have to sign another major fighter jet deal from what I understand. I've also read rumors that Malaysia plans to deploy up to 6 squadrons of multi-role fighters. Right now they operate 3. If those are correct, then even with a new fighter deal those Fulcrums would remain in service for some time.

 

[OPSSG]

Would RMAF Fulcrums be a worth while pick up for Peru? The the N model is comparable to Peru's SE model, same time line. Does anybody think a deal could be worked out? Might be a good way for Peru to pick up some more Fulcrums at a good price.

I don't think any work has started on the Peruvian Fulcrums a while back some sort of SMP upgraded was announced but can't seem to find anything on it now. Chile keeps piling up those Vipers so at some point one would expect Peru to start shopping.

RMAF MIG29 Jets To Be Phased Out - Zahid
BERNAMA - RMAF MIG29 Jets To Be Phased Out - Zahid

I understand from a Singapore forum that Malaysia's MIG-29Ns are actually second hand MIG-29As that were originally destined for disassembly (h/t to icestorm). Feanor, do you have any Russian sources to confirm this for me?

Further, Dzirhan (who is intimately aware of the situation in Malaysia) has confirmed that the phase out of the MiG is due to the state of the MiGs and the future costs of keeping them in operation beyond 2010. Because of the points mentioned above, the MiGs might not be a worth while pick up for Peru, unless they are willing to do quite some work on them first.

Sources confirmed that Malaysia's Defence Minister Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi (he is a political appointee and is sometimes not seen as being fully conversant with his portfolio) held a press conference that announced the phasing out of the MiG-29s.

...Defence Minister Datuk Seri Dr Ahmad Zahid Hamidi said the matter had been discussed with RMAF chief General Tan Sri Azizan Ariffin and the aircraft would be replaced soon."I have decided that from next month, the aircraft be phased out and we should find a way to sell them to certain companies or countries approved by the United Nations," he told reporters after visiting the victims of a storm in Rungkup...

According to another earlier press report, RMAF's chief of air force, General Tan Sri Azizan Ariffin said that "the mid-life review, however, is being carried out and the aircraft will continue to be used for operations until we find out other implications."

 

[SkolZkiy]

ÀÐÌÑ-ÒÀÑÑ
this is about Malaysia

About Peru - there were talks about helicopters nothing more

 

[Feanor]

Lenta.ru: Îðóæèå: Ìàëàéçèéñêèå ÌèÃ-29 îñòàíóòñÿ íà âîîðóæåíèè ïîñëå ïîñòàâîê Ñó-30ÌÊÌ

This article claims that the MiG-29 will remain in service. It also claims that the delivered MKM will undergo upgrades to make them compatible with western avionics, and that there is a potential of a second deal for the MKMs with Malaysia.

The arms-tass article above mentions the plans for 6 squadrons of multi-role fighters.

 

[OPSSG]

SkolZkiy and Feanor, thanks for your links. Much appreciated.

I used bablefish to translate so as to read them. Assuming I did not misunderstand the machine translated articles, Feanor, I think your link cites Bernama (Malaysia's official news agency - links of which were provided above) and an article in Janes (and that article was written by Dzirhan). Your link does not confirm that the Malaysian MiGs were upgraded MiG 29As but thanks anyway for the response.

This article claims that the MiG-29 will remain in service.

The Bernama reports themselves are slightly inconsistent on the final status of the Malaysian MiG29s. I note that Dzirhan has posted a response on the status of the Malaysian MiG29s (in the RMAF thread) and I'm inclined listen to what Dzirhan has confirmed.

The arms-tass article above mentions the plans for 6 squadrons of multi-role fighters.

That is Malaysia's long term goal but it is not budgeted for at the moment under the current or next Malaysian 5 year plan. I would treat it as a hope statement or a statement that they will one day hope to have 6 squadrons of multi-role fighters.

 

[Dzirhan]

Sorry for late reply, been busy with a few things but just to input some facts, I've been told that any resale of the MiGs to another country have to be approved by Russia. The six MRCA squadrons are a long-term final goal but nothing budgeted for. It's really the RMAF's estimate of the optimum no of Sqns adequate for the defence of Malaysia. The MKMs were always meant to be compatible with western avionics but things haven't worked out as well as planned.

 

[gf0012-aust]

Sorry for late reply, been busy with a few things but just to input some facts, I've been told that any resale of the MiGs to another country have to be approved by Russia. The six MRCA squadrons are a long-term final goal but nothing budgeted for. It's really the RMAF's estimate of the optimum no of Sqns adequate for the defence of Malaysia. The MKMs were always meant to be compatible with western avionics but things haven't worked out as well as planned.

I'm wondering whether some of the decision also revolves around a general lack of confidence in Mikoyan being able to survive within the next 2 years if they do not secure India or Brazil.

There are a number of aviation industry analysts who are putting Mikoyan, SAAB and Dassault into a watch phase as these 3 companies have the least "give" in surviving past 2015 if they don't secure the last two major contracts (India and Brazil). All 3 are not seen as getting enough home grown sales to keep them afloat and all are singularly regarded as vulnerable withoutr significant export sales. Its one of the reasons why SAAB are regarded as over-reacting with the Norway decision.

Interesting times ahead. There is certainly a view that we're about to see the demise of at least one military aviation company if not general aviation company if they lose out on India-Brazil.

Personally I hope not as we need credible competition to keep everyone honest. Unfort none of the aviation manufacturers can put heir hands on their hearts and profess to playing with a straight bat.

 

[Salty Dog]

I'm wondering whether some of the decision also revolves around a general lack of confidence in Mikoyan being able to survive within the next 2 years if they do not secure India or Brazil.

"Technically" the Mig-35 is out of the Brazilian F-X2 competition and the Gripen, Rafale, and F/A-18E/F are officially the remaining contenders by FAB.

 

[Scorpion82]

I'm wondering whether some of the decision also revolves around a general lack of confidence in Mikoyan being able to survive within the next 2 years if they do not secure India or Brazil.

There are a number of aviation industry analysts who are putting Mikoyan, SAAB and Dassault into a watch phase as these 3 companies have the least "give" in surviving past 2015 if they don't secure the last two major contracts (India and Brazil). All 3 are not seen as getting enough home grown sales to keep them afloat and all are singularly regarded as vulnerable withoutr significant export sales. Its one of the reasons why SAAB are regarded as over-reacting with the Norway decision.

Interesting times ahead. There is certainly a view that we're about to see the demise of at least one military aviation company if not general aviation company if they lose out on India-Brazil.

Personally I hope not as we need credible competition to keep everyone honest. Unfort none of the aviation manufacturers can put heir hands on their hearts and profess to playing with a straight bat.

But Mig isn't in the run for Brazil. The Russian state seems to try to keep MiG alive with some orders, but in the long run they definitely need a new customer.