The Saudis are not getting Tranche 3 aircraft. According to the published reports, they're getting 24 Tranche 2 aircraft ( RAF delivery slots relinquished to let the Saudis have early delivery, replaced by additional RAF orders to be delivered at the end of Tranche 2 - and that's all signed up for) plus 48 - with possible follow-up orders - to be assembled in Saudi Arabia. They want to build an assembly plant. Who are we to argue? The customer is always right. But it does rather get in the way of all these "T3 Typhoons for the Saudis" stories. Their authors never make clear the impact on the structure of the Saudi order, & often write in such a way that I suspect they don't even know it, which tends to undermine their credibility.
Eurofighter Typhoon Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Musashi_kenshin
- Start date
Scorpion82
New Member
CAESAR won't be produced at all as it was just a demonstration programme. The name of such an AESA system would be Captor-E and if the partner nations finally commit to an AESA system it should be ready by the time deliveries of T3A start around 2013.
I think that this aviationweek article is far better source concerning this matter. Next week we'll know more.
Yeh saw that one yesterday.
Today we get the slightly more worrying:
Uk Eurofighter purchase in question
I see, name does not matter as long as it is an AESA radar
I just hope it will be able to see within a decent distance the turkish F-35s...
Hmm, I guess we'll have to wait until next week. Perhaps they'll sort something out. It seems clear however that the pull out option would be a very expensive one.
Why? Are there any signs that Greece will renew its commitment to the Eurofighter? I don't think so, at least I haven't heard of anything.parmenion said:
METEORSWARM
New Member
Tecnology avanced day to day.
Today stealthy,tomorrow no less stealthy,in 8 years very less stealthy.
IS EVOLUTION DONT STOP
Today stealthy,tomorrow no less stealthy,in 8 years very less stealthy.
IS EVOLUTION DONT STOP
Lifted from yesterdays FT. Today, we have this rather more positive article -
FT.com / UK - UK ready to sign up for Eurofighter
But it's still got the 16-aircraft thing in it.
citizen578
New Member
Brown signs off tranche 3
Typhoon resolution is close
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Prime Minister Gordon Brown is allegedly set to sign off on the third tranche of Eurofighter Typhoons in an effort to preserve jobs and Britain's reputation in defence procurement. But measures to limit production and through life costs are still under review.
In recent weeks the Treasury has stepped into the debate over the third tranche of Typhoons, deeming them unaffordable and seeking a cancellation on the deal. But the damage any cancellation would do to British industry and the people it employs appears to be too much for Brown to stomach.
While companies such as EADS and BAE may be able to withstand the cancellation of 88 Typhoons for Britain and 232 overall for the partnering countries, many of the smaller suppliers would likely face severe drops in revenue and possible administration.
The Business Secretary Lord Mandelson has intervened in recent days according to the Financial Times, pushing Brown and the Cabinet to sign off on the deal. He told colleagues on Tuesday that any cancellation or delay for the third tranche would result in Britain being viewed as an "unreliable partner."
In reality, the MoD and government face an impossible situation in which there will be no financial winners. If Britain requests more time to debate the third tranche, up to £500m could be added onto the cost of the order due to delays in ordering and making parts for the aircraft. Additional costs would also be sustained by Italy, Spain and Germany who are ordering the planes. This would strain relations with them and hurt Britain's place in Europe.
Cancelling the deal would cost at least £2bn in penalties and also damage Britain's relations in the EU and in the European defence sector.
Ordering the planes and then selling on 72 of them to Saudi Arabia would still cost the Treasury at least £1.4bn and put additional strains on the MoD's already depleted budget for this year.
Last month the partnering nations agreed to divide tranche 3 into two orders and reduce production costs.
Defence Management - Typhoon resolution is close
Typhoon resolution is close
Wednesday, May 13, 2009
Prime Minister Gordon Brown is allegedly set to sign off on the third tranche of Eurofighter Typhoons in an effort to preserve jobs and Britain's reputation in defence procurement. But measures to limit production and through life costs are still under review.
In recent weeks the Treasury has stepped into the debate over the third tranche of Typhoons, deeming them unaffordable and seeking a cancellation on the deal. But the damage any cancellation would do to British industry and the people it employs appears to be too much for Brown to stomach.
While companies such as EADS and BAE may be able to withstand the cancellation of 88 Typhoons for Britain and 232 overall for the partnering countries, many of the smaller suppliers would likely face severe drops in revenue and possible administration.
The Business Secretary Lord Mandelson has intervened in recent days according to the Financial Times, pushing Brown and the Cabinet to sign off on the deal. He told colleagues on Tuesday that any cancellation or delay for the third tranche would result in Britain being viewed as an "unreliable partner."
In reality, the MoD and government face an impossible situation in which there will be no financial winners. If Britain requests more time to debate the third tranche, up to £500m could be added onto the cost of the order due to delays in ordering and making parts for the aircraft. Additional costs would also be sustained by Italy, Spain and Germany who are ordering the planes. This would strain relations with them and hurt Britain's place in Europe.
Cancelling the deal would cost at least £2bn in penalties and also damage Britain's relations in the EU and in the European defence sector.
Ordering the planes and then selling on 72 of them to Saudi Arabia would still cost the Treasury at least £1.4bn and put additional strains on the MoD's already depleted budget for this year.
Last month the partnering nations agreed to divide tranche 3 into two orders and reduce production costs.
Defence Management - Typhoon resolution is close
All in all not only the credibility of the UK among the European partners seems to be here at stake. Tranche 3 seems to be a very important step to transfrom the Eurofighter in a ture multi role fighter. Add that to the huge fines and the defense industry crying truth or wulf - I have a hard time to belive that this won't get through eventually. Perhaps it is to some extent show to demostrate that they are comitted to cutting or at least at trying.
The problem is that the press here in the UK are absolutely useless at reporting any Defence related news accurately-hence as Swerve has mentioned-when the UK Govt procrastinates on whether to order, and certain Middle East customers come along sniffing for fighters, they put 2 and 2 together and make 5 that the UK might cancel T3/and or sell them to ME customers. Which is crazy-why would the RAF and the MOD agree to giving up the most advanced variant of the Typhoon after all the money they have spent on the program!?!?
FluffyThoughts
Member
Jee-whizz: wakey-wakey!!!
BBC NEWS | UK | New batch of fighter jets for RAF
More mud-movers to be delivered!
BBC NEWS | UK | New batch of fighter jets for RAF
More mud-movers to be delivered!
Looks like some good news:
Britain To Buy 3rd Batch of Typhoons - Defense News
Still a few too many possible get out clauses in that article, I especially don't like the look of this:
Britain To Buy 3rd Batch of Typhoons - Defense News
Still a few too many possible get out clauses in that article, I especially don't like the look of this:
But at least it's a little more optimistic than the last few days of articles.
citizen578
New Member
I'm getting increasingly confused by all this. Has anything actually changed? Or is it just the case that the media's perception of it has changed?
So there was never any chance of the RAFs purchse beig diverted to Saudi, or was it the intention to withdraw only to find out that it costs more to withdraw than to conclude the purchase?
:unknown :unknown
So there was never any chance of the RAFs purchse beig diverted to Saudi, or was it the intention to withdraw only to find out that it costs more to withdraw than to conclude the purchase?
:unknown
:unknownI think the govt. just reaffirmed its commitment to the program yesterday to show it wouldn't cut any aircraft. Only 24 were ever going to be diverted to Saudi Arabia, it just depended on which tranche they'd come from I think. The rest are being locally produced.I'm getting increasingly confused by all this. Has anything actually changed? Or is it just the case that the media's perception of it has changed?
So there was never any chance of the RAFs purchse beig diverted to Saudi, or was it the intention to withdraw only to find out that it costs more to withdraw than to conclude the purchase?
:unknown
The Saudi aircraft being built are at tranche 2 standard, but i think we made up the numbers afterwards, so we'll get the the same number of tranche 2 for the UK, but fewer tranche 3, with more tranche 2 being built overall and the same number of tranche 3 as originally planned....I think, it's very confusing and unclear.
The latter, I believe.