Pirates
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I am not talking film sats here... Once an attack is reported, the sat zeros in on the pirates and follows thm back to the mothership.
The sat would have to be a geostationary one.
Ships carrying INF cargo are routed clear of areas of risk even if it extends the duration on the voyage by a considerable margin.
i am not a total as hol. as much as i suggest brutality, I dont suggest genocide. if i want them dead, why stop at 90%, why stop at ships, if i want ALL somalians dead, i would have suggest we just carpet bomb them BUT that is NOT what I implied.
I suggest we go after PIRATES with extreme force. If you see a sketchy boat where it shouldn't be or if the members of the boat are armed, we should either capture them or take them out. If we capture them, we should actually persecute them severely. if like 90% of pirates go out and are either shot or captured, fewer people would be willing or be left to do what they do
I suggest we go after PIRATES with extreme force. If you see a sketchy boat where it shouldn't be or if the members of the boat are armed, we should either capture them or take them out. If we capture them, we should actually persecute them severely. if like 90% of pirates go out and are either shot or captured, fewer people would be willing or be left to do what they do
kev 99
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Had, it's been released and delivered now, I don't recall if any ransom was paid for it.
As has been said - including directly to you - how the hell do you identify pirates until they attack? And who is going to provide, & pay for, the surveillance & strike forces to do all this?
Pirates prey on local boats, & life ashore in Somalia is dangerous. Men carry guns. You can't kill everyone with a gun, any more than you can in Afghanistan or Texas, or you'll depopulate the place.
What do you mean, a "boat where it shouldn't be"? Where precisely is that? A Somali boat in the Gulf of Aden, or off the east coast of Somalia, is exactly where it should be. A skiff 400 miles offshore is a different matter - but do you realise how big an area you are talking about, & what it'd take to patrol it effectively? You say "should" - OK, pay for it. I'm not going to. I think there are better uses for my taxes.
BTW, I hate people advocating thuggery via euphemisms. If you mean kill, say kill, not "take out". If you can't even say it, don't suggest doing it. And what do you mean by "persecute them severely"? Torture? Same rule applies. Say what you mean. And think it through. Don't use terms (such as "boat where it shouldn't be") with meanings which are unclear, even to yourself.
Another one who has absolutely no idea of scale, or conditions. Go & read up on the country, what's happening there, piracy, etc.
I agree. Those euphemisms became so dominant in every discussion about military and foreign political matters and in the media that nobody notices them as such anymore. I think the perception of what the socalled "west" is doing around the world would be quite different if people would actually call things what they really are.
"Taking out pirates" sounds much better than "killing hungry teenagers" (the three pirates killed by snipers during the operation to free the American captain recently aparently all were around 15 to 17 years old. Something the media doesn't mention often).
15 and 17 year old is young but here in America, we still give out adult sentences for teens. the very fact that they planned things out and planned to pirate a boat means they very well know what they were doing. Yes it is sad, but it doesn't mean we should be lenient.
By a boat being somewhere where it shouldn't be, I mean exactly what you mean. A small boat that is 100(or whatever is unreasonable) miles away from coast. If you also look to see if the boat is carry any supplies that can give away their intent.(guns and fishing net would lead to two entirely different responses)
I do advocate thuggery. By take out, I do mean to kill angry(or maybe greedy?) teenager. I know you don't believe violence is the solution but it sure beats sitting back and negotiating whenever a ship get hijacked. Now I agree violence alone won't solve anything but it will decrease it.
We must take both non-violent action( teaching boat pilots the right maneuvers, barb wire, safe rooms, etc.) but we also must take aggressive actions. Instead of just repelling pirates(and letting them off), we must pursue them and either apprehend them or "kill those angry teenagers".
I understand that the country is desperate and dirt poor. People are desperate and they will do whatever they need to survive and escape from their "life" but you also have to consider the fact that these pirates are heroes in their home country, almost like a Francis Drake character. They come home with millions of dollars and flocks of woman begging to merry them. People in their port towns look up to them and admire them much like how children in the states look up to baseball and basketball players. people look to them as an example. They then hope to be just like them. If less of them return back home successfully, they will be deterred from doing things in this nature especially if news gets out they got shot, or going to spend the next 10 years being someone's special friend in an American(or whatever nation's) prison
By a boat being somewhere where it shouldn't be, I mean exactly what you mean. A small boat that is 100(or whatever is unreasonable) miles away from coast. If you also look to see if the boat is carry any supplies that can give away their intent.(guns and fishing net would lead to two entirely different responses)
I do advocate thuggery. By take out, I do mean to kill angry(or maybe greedy?) teenager. I know you don't believe violence is the solution but it sure beats sitting back and negotiating whenever a ship get hijacked. Now I agree violence alone won't solve anything but it will decrease it.
We must take both non-violent action( teaching boat pilots the right maneuvers, barb wire, safe rooms, etc.) but we also must take aggressive actions. Instead of just repelling pirates(and letting them off), we must pursue them and either apprehend them or "kill those angry teenagers".
I understand that the country is desperate and dirt poor. People are desperate and they will do whatever they need to survive and escape from their "life" but you also have to consider the fact that these pirates are heroes in their home country, almost like a Francis Drake character. They come home with millions of dollars and flocks of woman begging to merry them. People in their port towns look up to them and admire them much like how children in the states look up to baseball and basketball players. people look to them as an example. They then hope to be just like them. If less of them return back home successfully, they will be deterred from doing things in this nature especially if news gets out they got shot, or going to spend the next 10 years being someone's special friend in an American(or whatever nation's) prison
swerve I live on the other side of the world and have read so much conflicting stories about whats going on there, honestly I dont know what the hell to take in and what not to. We all know the situation over there in the broader sense of the word, and the issue is piracy. not lets all go and fix this country to fix its piracy problem. If they are left to go at it and while the world sits and plans a fix for the country as a whole, in that time these groups of pirates will have more time to plan and become more orgainsed, also this will give more times for other groups to jump on the band wagon.
But hey this is just what I see of the situation, I figure im allowed my own opinion
But hey this is just what I see of the situation, I figure im allowed my own opinion
The Danish Institute for Military Studies (DIMS) concludes in a new report that the way to stop piracy off the coast of Somalia is to introduce a regional coastguard from Egypt in the north to Tanzania in the south.
The report, which is to be presented at an international conference in London on April 27, suggests that the countries around the Horn of Africa cooperate in a regional coastguard.
“This coastguard service should address piracy, rescue operations, fishing inspection and environmental protection,” DIMS Researcher Lars Bangert Struwe tells politiken.dk.
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article690240.ece
“We find that by giving a coastguard more and important tasks, involved nations are more motivated to take part,” Struwe says.
Own interest
“Local participation should not be confined to Somalia, but to the entire region defined as the ‘Greater Horn of Africa’. This will mean that the coastguard is not just associated with Africa or the Arab world but to both sides of the Gulf of Aden,” the report says.
The report proposes that Kenya, Tanzania, Eritrea, Djibouti, Egypt, Yemen and Saudi-Arabia take part in the project.
Although these states may have diverging interests, they all have a direct interest in keeping the sailing routes around the Horn of Africa free of pirates. They all have major economic and security interests in stemming the tide of piracy, the report says.
Somalia
The Danish researchers also believe, however, that Somalia – or some provinces of Somalia – should as far as possible be included in the coastguard operations. At the same time it is vital for Egypt and Saudi Arabia to take part as they are the only countries with frigates.
Symptoms
Struwe says that the current anti-piracy operations in the region simply address the symptoms, and it will be necessary to introduce other measures in the long-term.
“Part of the problem is that the many naval vessels off Somalia are not a unified international unit coordinating operations. There are two task forces, but, for example, Russia, China and India are not part of the coordinated operation,” he says.
Egypt
Struwe says that East Africa states are not particularly interested in anti-piracy and are reluctant to become involved in the Somali wasp’s nest – despite the fact that it would be in their interests to do so.
“A country like Egypt is highly dependent on anti-piracy measures and that the traffic through the Suez Canal becomes normalized. In March alone, Egypt lost 25 percent of its regular income from canal passages,” Struwe says.
Southeast Asia
In its report, DIMS says that anti-piracy measures are effective if several countries cooperate.
While piracy is on the upsurge in East and West Africa, it has fallen dramatically in Southeast Asia, including the Malacca and Singapore Straits where the number of piracy attacks have been halved from 170 in 2003 to 54 in 2008.
“This dramatic drop is a result of a transnational effort,” the report says.
The report, which is to be presented at an international conference in London on April 27, suggests that the countries around the Horn of Africa cooperate in a regional coastguard.
“This coastguard service should address piracy, rescue operations, fishing inspection and environmental protection,” DIMS Researcher Lars Bangert Struwe tells politiken.dk.
http://politiken.dk/newsinenglish/article690240.ece
“We find that by giving a coastguard more and important tasks, involved nations are more motivated to take part,” Struwe says.
Own interest
“Local participation should not be confined to Somalia, but to the entire region defined as the ‘Greater Horn of Africa’. This will mean that the coastguard is not just associated with Africa or the Arab world but to both sides of the Gulf of Aden,” the report says.
The report proposes that Kenya, Tanzania, Eritrea, Djibouti, Egypt, Yemen and Saudi-Arabia take part in the project.
Although these states may have diverging interests, they all have a direct interest in keeping the sailing routes around the Horn of Africa free of pirates. They all have major economic and security interests in stemming the tide of piracy, the report says.
Somalia
The Danish researchers also believe, however, that Somalia – or some provinces of Somalia – should as far as possible be included in the coastguard operations. At the same time it is vital for Egypt and Saudi Arabia to take part as they are the only countries with frigates.
Symptoms
Struwe says that the current anti-piracy operations in the region simply address the symptoms, and it will be necessary to introduce other measures in the long-term.
“Part of the problem is that the many naval vessels off Somalia are not a unified international unit coordinating operations. There are two task forces, but, for example, Russia, China and India are not part of the coordinated operation,” he says.
Egypt
Struwe says that East Africa states are not particularly interested in anti-piracy and are reluctant to become involved in the Somali wasp’s nest – despite the fact that it would be in their interests to do so.
“A country like Egypt is highly dependent on anti-piracy measures and that the traffic through the Suez Canal becomes normalized. In March alone, Egypt lost 25 percent of its regular income from canal passages,” Struwe says.
Southeast Asia
In its report, DIMS says that anti-piracy measures are effective if several countries cooperate.
While piracy is on the upsurge in East and West Africa, it has fallen dramatically in Southeast Asia, including the Malacca and Singapore Straits where the number of piracy attacks have been halved from 170 in 2003 to 54 in 2008.
“This dramatic drop is a result of a transnational effort,” the report says.
That would hardly affect piracy. Look at where the attacks have been. Mostly in coastal waters (yes, really!). The majority are still within the Gulf of Aden (& mostly, nearer the coasts than the centre), & small boats routinely cross that.
Those outside coastal waters have used "mother ships", & you can't attack them on sight because they're there, because they're exactly the same as the larger fishing boats (sometimes that's what they are) & trading vessels that put out from the coast. They can & do travel very long distances legitimately. They also, legitimately, sometimes carry or tow a skiff, for deploying a drift net, so even that isn't proof they're pirates, though it would make them worth checking.
BTW, the Somali hijackings furthest from Somalia have both been near the coasts of other states, Tanzania & the Seychelles, where the small boats could masquerade as locals.
You can't usually see if they have guns or nets without boarding them. Trading boats won't have nets, but may carry legitimately (because they're dangerous waters) guns.
Even assuming that it is possible to reliably identify pirate vessels once spotted, the resources necessary to sink 90% of them are simply not available. Too much water to patrol, too many innocent boats to check.
You really, really, haven't thought this through, or bothered to check any facts. You can't solve a problem without any understanding of it.
like I said, violence is just one part of the solution
Ship captains have to take more preventive actions. If they do indeed happen in coastal waters, then sailing further out at sea is the easy solution. I believe there are very few recorded cases where pirates boarded a ship going faster than 15 knots, so evasive action and lookouts would be needed. At times, when a ship is attacked, a naval helicopter comes and scares off the pirates. We should not just let them off but continue the persuit.
What do you call a thousand dead "angry teenager" pirates?
a good start
nfloorl: nfloorl: :nutkick
Ship captains have to take more preventive actions. If they do indeed happen in coastal waters, then sailing further out at sea is the easy solution. I believe there are very few recorded cases where pirates boarded a ship going faster than 15 knots, so evasive action and lookouts would be needed. At times, when a ship is attacked, a naval helicopter comes and scares off the pirates. We should not just let them off but continue the persuit.
What do you call a thousand dead "angry teenager" pirates?
a good start
nfloorl: nfloorl: :nutkickWhat part of that do you think is not done?
As for sailing further out to sea - look at a map. You can't sail further out to sea in the Gulf of Aden, where the majority of attacks happen. The pirates attack all the way over to the opposite coast. You can't sail further out to sea when you're approaching or leaving port, e.g the Maersk Alabama.
Sailing further out to sea off the oceanic coast has led to the pirates using mother ships, & extending the range of their attacks. Hence the hijackings in the Seychelles, & off Tanzania.
1. A South Korean Lynx helicopter dispatched from Munmu the Great destroyer drove away pirates who were trying to board a Danish-registered ship (Puma) in waters off Somalia.
2. HMCS Winnipeg helped thwart an attack by Somali pirates on a Norwegian tanker in the Gulf of Aden. Canadian sailors chased down the pirates, boarded their vessel and detained them, before having to release them. Rear Admiral Bob Davidson from Canada explains the legal problems with detaining pirates.
3. According to Reuters, Dutch commandos from the De Zeven Provincien freed 20 Yemeni fishermen held as hostages and briefly detained seven pirates who had forced the Yemenis to sail a "mother ship" attacking vessels in the Gulf of Aden. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that "NATO does not have a detainment policy. The warship must follow its national law," NATO Lieutenant Commander Alexandre Fernandes said. "They can only arrest them if the pirates are from the Netherlands, the victims are from the Netherlands, or if they are in Netherlands waters."
4. In a separate incident, gunmen from Somalia seized a Belgian-registered a dredging vessel, the Pompei and its 10 crew, including seven Europeans, about 600 km (370 miles) from the Somali coast en route to the Seychelles (in the Indian Ocean). A pirate source who said he was on board the Pompei told Reuters in Mogadishu by satellite phone that the pirates would sail it to a coastal base. "We have hijacked a Belgian ship. We will take it to Haradheere," he said.
5. There is an interesting article called '10 Things You Didn’t Know About Somali Pirates', and while I may not agree with everything said there but it is interesting background reading. In particular, fact 4, "the law can't touch them" is wrong. The Kenyan courts have ruled that they have jurisdiction to try pirates and they have rejected defense arguments that the Kenyan courts does not have jurisdiction to try the pirates.
2. HMCS Winnipeg helped thwart an attack by Somali pirates on a Norwegian tanker in the Gulf of Aden. Canadian sailors chased down the pirates, boarded their vessel and detained them, before having to release them. Rear Admiral Bob Davidson from Canada explains the legal problems with detaining pirates.
3. According to Reuters, Dutch commandos from the De Zeven Provincien freed 20 Yemeni fishermen held as hostages and briefly detained seven pirates who had forced the Yemenis to sail a "mother ship" attacking vessels in the Gulf of Aden. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that "NATO does not have a detainment policy. The warship must follow its national law," NATO Lieutenant Commander Alexandre Fernandes said. "They can only arrest them if the pirates are from the Netherlands, the victims are from the Netherlands, or if they are in Netherlands waters."
4. In a separate incident, gunmen from Somalia seized a Belgian-registered a dredging vessel, the Pompei and its 10 crew, including seven Europeans, about 600 km (370 miles) from the Somali coast en route to the Seychelles (in the Indian Ocean). A pirate source who said he was on board the Pompei told Reuters in Mogadishu by satellite phone that the pirates would sail it to a coastal base. "We have hijacked a Belgian ship. We will take it to Haradheere," he said.
5. There is an interesting article called '10 Things You Didn’t Know About Somali Pirates', and while I may not agree with everything said there but it is interesting background reading. In particular, fact 4, "the law can't touch them" is wrong. The Kenyan courts have ruled that they have jurisdiction to try pirates and they have rejected defense arguments that the Kenyan courts does not have jurisdiction to try the pirates.
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For news about pirates in other waters, Reuters reported that a Singapore-registered tugboat Prospaq T1 was on its way to Vietnam towing a huge empty barge when it was attacked by about a dozen pirates on April 7 in the South China Sea. A container ship rescued at least 10 crew members from Prospaq T1 taken over by machete-wielding pirates near Philippine territorial waters.
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