Future of Russian Military

[nevidimka]

Yes, the Lion of Babylon. More like the pussycat of Babylon. nfloorl:

ok, on a serious note, I saw o the History channel where they said the Iraqi's mass cloned the T 72 ( the lion..) and it was very poor.

So there were the lions and Russian the T 72's equipped with ERA then?

 

[eckherl]

Yes, the Lion of Babylon. More like the pussycat of Babylon. nfloorl:

ok, on a serious note, I saw o the History channel where they said the Iraqi's mass cloned the T 72 ( the lion..) and it was very poor.

So there were the lions and Russian the T 72's equipped with ERA then?

I would not say that they made them on a massive scale, but yes they did field some with ERA. Here is a photo for you that has floated around, I have additional ones but I need to find them.

 

[Tavarisch]

Not K5 obviously.

Are there any instances where T-72s were fitted with DshKs instead of the NSVT?

I think only Republican Guard units were outfitted with ERA. Considering the fact that they were well-armed, at least compared to the Regular Iraqi units.

 

[Feanor]

So the deal with Kazakhstan juis getting set up for 10 btlns of S-300 systems. However if I recall correctly both the S-300 and S-400 are produced at one plant, and it's backlogged for years in advance with orders. So I'm thinking these will come out of Russian reserve inventory, and just be modernized to the PMU-1 standard.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=66903&cid=25

On a sidenote the government also confirmed that no procurement budget cuts are planned.

 

[nevidimka]

I would not say that they made them on a massive scale, but yes they did field some with ERA. Here is a photo for you that has floated around, I have additional ones but I need to find them.

I've seen them in the History channel, though they were not covered in ERA.

 

[Wall83]

The second ship in the Neustrashimy class has finaly left the shipyard in Kaliningrad to start its first sea-trials in the baltic sea. http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090224/120272685.html

 

[Feanor]

A few interesting things. The 42nd MRD, the Chechen one, that recently participated in the Georgian War, will be disbanded. On it's basis we will see three new brigades formed. All three brigades will be composed of entirely contract soldiers and they will be located in Shali, Hankala, and Borzoy.

http://www.arms-expo.ru/site.xp/049057054048124054055053054.html

And the 106th Airborne will be disbanded, and it's regiments will be integrated into other units. Divisional level assets will be disbanded entirely.

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=256750

Looks like the army reform is progressing. What I really want to know, are the unit numbers and personell strength of the new brigades being formed.

 

[nevidimka]

A few interesting things. The 42nd MRD, the Chechen one, that recently participated in the Georgian War, will be disbanded. On it's basis we will see three new brigades formed. All three brigades will be composed of entirely contract soldiers and they will be located in Shali, Hankala, and Borzoy.

http://www.arms-expo.ru/site.xp/049057054048124054055053054.html

And the 106th Airborne will be disbanded, and it's regiments will be integrated into other units. Divisional level assets will be disbanded entirely.

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=256750

Looks like the army reform is progressing. What I really want to know, are the unit numbers and personell strength of the new brigades being formed.

I dont think its a good idea to disband a unit that has seen war in Chechnya and Georgia to be replaced with contract soldiers. You would lose the experience gained by these units. If there is a flare up, the new units would be fighting blank.

 

[eckherl]

I dont think its a good idea to disband a unit that has seen war in Chechnya and Georgia to be replaced with contract soldiers. You would lose the experience gained by these units. If there is a flare up, the new units would be fighting blank.

If they are contracted soldiers do they not come with experience, or did you mean conscripts.

 

[Feanor]

The same soldiers will now be split up into 3 brigades instead of one division.

 

[macman]

Came across this on RIA Novosti
- 247th Air Assault Caucasian Cossack Regiment during battalion tactical drills:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556.html

Couple of questions...
This is an Air Assault regiment, which I thought would be part of the VDV, yet they don't have Blue Beret's. Are Cossack's seperate?

And on Page 6:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556_6.html
This looks like a couple of 30mm cannon's on top of a BMD-3 setup for anti-aircraft..
Can anyone confirm ? (new one to me)


Also noted that modern communication's gear for the commanders, computers for configuring tac response, etc., doesn't seem to have filtered down as yet...

 

[Tavarisch]

Came across this on RIA Novosti
- 247th Air Assault Caucasian Cossack Regiment during battalion tactical drills:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556.html

Couple of questions...
This is an Air Assault regiment, which I thought would be part of the VDV, yet they don't have Blue Beret's. Are Cossack's seperate?

And on Page 6:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556_6.html
This looks like a couple of 30mm cannon's on top of a BMD-3 setup for anti-aircraft..
Can anyone confirm ? (new one to me)


Also noted that modern communication's gear for the commanders, computers for configuring tac response, etc., doesn't seem to have filtered down as yet...

Edit : Yeah, those look like BMD3s with a ZU-23 mount. Never heard of one before but it shouldn't be uncommon I guess.

 

[Feanor]

Came across this on RIA Novosti
- 247th Air Assault Caucasian Cossack Regiment during battalion tactical drills:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556.html

Those photos are BMPs.... not BMDs, for the most part. Also the strange name Air Assault regiment. From what I understand that means heavier equipment, and typically requiring a landing strip of some sort. They're more akin to air-mobile units rather then airborne, though I believe they retain some para-drop capabilities. I'm not sure if they're part of the VDV or not. I'll dig around.

Couple of questions...
This is an Air Assault regiment, which I thought would be part of the VDV, yet they don't have Blue Beret's. Are Cossack's seperate?

I would assume that in combat everyone wears helmets....

And on Page 6:
http://en.rian.ru/photolents/20090224/120269556_6.html
This looks like a couple of 30mm cannon's on top of a BMD-3 setup for anti-aircraft..
Can anyone confirm ? (new one to me)

ZSU-23-2 on what appears to be a BMD chassis. I don't know if any BTR-MD vehicles have the ZSU-23-2 armament, but that might be it.

Also noted that modern communication's gear for the commanders, computers for configuring tac response, etc., doesn't seem to have filtered down as yet...

I don't see what you mean... I didn't see any of that stuff in any of the photos.

Here's what I've found on the subject of air-assault vs para-airborne units. It is in Russian so... online translator if you can. In the wiki article scroll down to the post 1991 history, and read the second paragraph. They specifically say that the air-assault can also fully paradrop (my guess was wrong), but includes one regiment that paradrops with their heavy equipment. However it gets further complicated, as apparently in the Soviet days a para-airborne brigade includes in it 3 btlns of para-airborne troops, and one bltn of air-assault. It's unclear whether that has changed today.

http://www.rusarmy.com/forum/topic1151.html
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/76-я_гвардейская_десантно-штурмовая_дивизия
http://ryadovoy.ru/militarizm/orgstruktures/DSHV_soviet/odshbr_1t/org_dshv_odshbr_2.htm

And here's what I found in an article.

В чем же отличие первых от вторых, а их вместе - от третьих?

- Парашютно-десантные части готовы в полном составе со всей техникой и запасами материальных средств десантироваться самолетами военно-транспортной авиации. Десантно-штурмовые соединения - весь личный состав, все 100 процентов - также готовы десантироваться парашютным способом, но в них будут отдельные подразделения, которым предстоит, десантировавшись вместе с техникой и запасами материальных средств, выполнять задачи, связанные с обеспечением основной группы десанта. Это, в частности, захват аэродромов, куда потом посадочным или другим способом пойдут десантно-штурмовые подразделения. То есть в интересах доставки к месту выполнения задач будут использоваться парашютно-десантные подразделения, которые также останутся в составе десантно-штурмовых частей.

Десантно-штурмовые подразделения, если сравнивать их с парашютно-десантными, будут усилены. У них появится своя артиллерия, другие подразделения боевого обеспечения, что позволит им самостоятельно и самодостаточно (без значительного усиления!) выполнять задачи в отрыве от главных сил.

Горное соединение - тот же самый десантно-штурмовой вариант, но с разницей в подготовке, экипировке, образцах вооружения. Кроме того, планируем воссоздать подразделения вьючных животных. Как показал опыт действий на Северном Кавказе, есть такие участки местности, где техника не пройдет. А когда солдат тащит на своей спине все, что нужно занести в гору, то это не повышает его боевые возможности.

http://www.vpk-news.ru/print.asp?pr_sign=archive.2005.98.articles.names_01

So apparently both are part of the VDV command, but are two separate kinds of troops. By the way the VDV command only covers units in the European part of the country. SibVo, PUrVO, and DaVO all command their airborne units from the MD command.

 

[Feanor]

And a few more new things. The two BMD RLS in Ukraine have been deactivated, and replaced by a new RLS in Armavir, Krasnodarskiy Kray, of the Voronezh-DM class. Another RLS of the same class is also being built in Armavir, but pointing South-East. It's only started recently and will replace the Gabala radar in Azerbaijan. The old RLS had ranges of 1.9 thousand km, the new one has a range of 4.5 thousand km.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67327&cid=25
http://newsru.com/russia/27feb2009/armavir.html

And SpetsStroy has completed some of the work on the VMF base in Novorossiysk. Planned are three large piers, and a ship repair plant.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67286&cid=25

I'm wondering if the base will be completed given the current financial troubles.

 

[nevidimka]

And a few more new things. The two BMD RLS in Ukraine have been deactivated, and replaced by a new RLS in Armavir, Krasnodarskiy Kray, of the Voronezh-DM class. Another RLS of the same class is also being built in Armavir, but pointing South-East. It's only started recently and will replace the Gabala radar in Azerbaijan. The old RLS had ranges of 1.9 thousand km, the new one has a range of 4.5 thousand km.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67327&cid=25
http://newsru.com/russia/27feb2009/armavir.html

And SpetsStroy has completed some of the work on the VMF base in Novorossiysk. Planned are three large piers, and a ship repair plant.

http://arms-tass.su/?page=article&aid=67286&cid=25

I'm wondering if the base will be completed given the current financial troubles.

Interesting, how does this new radar station compare to western ones? Also how many of this new Voronezh -DM class radar is operating in Russia to give it a full 360 degree coverage? I also read that that the new radar uses lesser power than the older ones in Ukraine.

And you like using RLS eh?

 

[macman]

Thanks for the info..

RE: 'I would assume that in combat everyone wears helmets....'
Pages 9 & 10 staff are wearing hats, but they are not blue beret's, which is what I was referring to.

Also on page 10, staff are marking stuff off on paper, rather than on computers, etc...

 

[Feanor]

Interesting, how does this new radar station compare to western ones? Also how many of this new Voronezh -DM class radar is operating in Russia to give it a full 360 degree coverage? I also read that that the new radar uses lesser power than the older ones in Ukraine.

And you like using RLS eh?

Eh indeed. :

Anyways, there are currently 2 Voronezh-DM stations operational. The first near St. Peters, and the second in Armavir, with a third at Armavir being built right now. I belive we need to replace two more radars around Murmansk to cover the north and north west, and at least one more in South Siberia to replace the Kazakh RLS.

 

[nevidimka]

Eh indeed. :

Anyways, there are currently 2 Voronezh-DM stations operational. The first near St. Peters, and the second in Armavir, with a third at Armavir being built right now. I belive we need to replace two more radars around Murmansk to cover the north and north west, and at least one more in South Siberia to replace the Kazakh RLS.

What about the east? The 1 facing China should be the highest priority.

 

[SkolZkiy]

This RLS =))) have 240 degree view =) and range 4500 km (1500 old-ones)
It was already said that Russia would replace all RLS stations =)

 

[nevidimka]

240 degrees? Where do you get that from? Is this a different type of radar to the 1 US is building in Czech? Coz that 1 is 360 degrees.