Malaysian Army/Land forces discussions

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Tavarisch

New Member
nevidimka said:
That is absolutely right. I got it mixed up. I was thinking Malaysian Army, and not Malaysian Armed Forces. :)

@eckherl

Do you agree that the T 90 is a better protected tank than the Pt91?

Do you agree that if both the PT 91 and T 90 was offered at similar prices with T 90 the better protected tanks, barter trade being a deal clincher makes it a bad choice?

Also don't you think the Russians incorporated what they learnt in Afghanistan, Chechnya and incorporated it into the T 90 tank design, which the T 72 lacks, and Poland having no significant war experience makes their upgraded T 72 less competitive to the T 90?

But my questions above does not mean that I don't believe that the Pt 91 could do its job in Mysia, after basing it on your arguments.
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Just to point out :

No, a barter trade doesn't make the T90 bad. It's just what Malaysia could afford at that time, and since the PT-91 deal was something more agreeable, Mahathir decided to go with that choice.
 
D

DavidDCM

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
nevidimka said:
That is absolutely right. I got it mixed up. I was thinking Malaysian Army, and not Malaysian Armed Forces. :)

@eckherl

Do you agree that the T 90 is a better protected tank than the Pt91?
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I'm not eckherl, but: Yes, off course is the T-90 better protected.

Do you agree that if both the PT 91 and T 90 was offered at similar prices with T 90 the better protected tanks, barter trade being a deal clincher makes it a bad choice?
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No, I don't fully agree here, because I don't regard the T-90 as so much better than the PT-91M. As I stated before, armour protection is just one of many aspects.

For example: The Savan 15 FCS of the PT-91M is, in my eyes at least, superior to the ESSA/1G46 combination of the T-90. Additionally, the Vigy 15 independent periscope, though lacking night-vision, offers the commander a way better situational awareness than the T-90's pretty old PNK-4 forward looking sight derived from the T-80U.

Also don't you think the Russians incorporated what they learnt in Afghanistan, Chechnya and incorporated it into the T 90 tank design, which the T 72 lacks, and Poland having no significant war experience makes their upgraded T 72 less competitive to the T 90?
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Don't you think the Polish engineers were also able to gain informations about recent conflicts? And beside that, we the Germans did not fight a war in the last 6 decades as well, yet we still build tanks that are highly respected by most soldiers. So why not the Poles, too? :D

But my questions above does not mean that I don't believe that the Pt 91 could do its job in Mysia, after basing it on your arguments.
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I think this is a very interesting and friendly discussion, and I'm happy to wait for your reply.
 
G

ggk

New Member
hi guys, the new sabot round from bosnia have some modification to it....an additive propellant charge around the sabot, no detail about it though.


also you guys forgot to discuss the anti-radar, anti-thermal covering and heat management paint the Pendekar use, that ought to give some extra advantage?
 
T

Tavarisch

New Member
DavidDCM said:
Yes, better than not having it.

BTW, does the PT-91M have an air conditioner?
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Unsure of that. Though I heard that the T-84 could operate from temperatures at -55 C to >20 C.

I think the airconditioner comes as a standard though. Malaysia's humidity and mosquitoes are real killers.

By the way, does anybody know if we are gonna procure any additional tanks anytime soon?
 
R

renjer

New Member
eckherl said:
Hmm, the only T-72 turret that I am aware of that Russia started marketing is the Rogatka and that is a cast turret. Rumors have it that Algeria may look at this upgrade for 200 of their T-72 tanks along with continued purchase of T-90SA.
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That is probably it. Thank you for the information.
 
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DavidDCM

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Tavarisch said:
Unsure of that. Though I heard that the T-84 could operate from temperatures at -55 C to >20 C.

I think the airconditioner comes as a standard though. Malaysia's humidity and mosquitoes are real killers.

By the way, does anybody know if we are gonna procure any additional tanks anytime soon?
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Anytime soon probably not. The 48 original tanks are not all delivered as far as I know and in these difficult times there are other, more urgent projects than buying more tanks.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
Tavarisch said:
Unsure of that. Though I heard that the T-84 could operate from temperatures at -55 C to >20 C.

I think the airconditioner comes as a standard though. Malaysia's humidity and mosquitoes are real killers.

By the way, does anybody know if we are gonna procure any additional tanks anytime soon?
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Does it have a mosquito net? :eek:nfloorl:

On a serious note, does it have any APS? or is it just basic armour + ERA?

Are they still in the process of delivering the original batch?
If they go ahead to purchase more, I'd like to see some T 90 instead.
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
And add another small number of tanks with yet another supply chain?

This would be the least clever decision Malaysia could make. If one decides to use a certain design one should stick to it otherwise you throw alot of money out of the window with a debatable gain in capabilities.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
Waylander said:
And add another small number of tanks with yet another supply chain?

This would be the least clever decision Malaysia could make. If one decides to use a certain design one should stick to it otherwise you throw alot of money out of the window with a debatable gain in capabilities.
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Right,that wasn't a good choice. But out of curiosity doesnt the Pt 91 share some same parts to the T 90? considering they belonged to the same T 72?
 
T

Tavarisch

New Member
nevidimka said:
It doesnt look like it has any APS. Also, is the secondary gun remotely movable?
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An APS module can be easily added. Of course, that is if our current Gov. wants them. 300 thousand USD for one module for 48 tanks, do the math.

I'm taken aback by the fact that the M2 .50 Browning isn't remote controlled. We may as well go for the NSVT next time.
 
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nevidimka

New Member
The Pt 91 on Janes :

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0047.html

The PT-91 MBT has a number of improvements over the earlier T-72M1 in the key areas of armour, mobility and firepower. In addition to producing new vehicles to the PT-91 standard, most of these modifications can be backfitted to existing T-72M1s while others, for example the armour package, can be backfitted to other vehicles.The main improvements of the PT-91 over the original Polish-built T-72M1 can be summarised as follows:Installation of the Polish-developed explosive reactive armour Type ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2 to the hull and turret, details of this are given in the entry for the Polish T-72M1 MBTFour laser warning antennas are fitted around the turret which alerts the crew if it is being targeted by a laser range-finder or designator. This system is known as the OBRA-3 laser warning system and works in automatic and manual modes. The OBRA laser warning system was developed and produced by the Polish company PCOMounted either side of the turret are 12 Tellur 81 mm smoke grenade dischargers which cover the frontal arc of the vehicle. These are operated in conjunction with the OBRA laser warning systemThe skirts are steel with the forward part covered by ERAWA-1 explosive reactive armour blocksNew computerised fire-control system installed, with the gunner's passive image intensification sight having the option of being changed for a Drawa thermal sight. A laser range-finder is fitted as standard and the 125 mm smoothbore main armament is stabilised in both elevation and traverse. The fire-control system has been developed by PCO of

That kinda summarizes what I feel about the tank.
 
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DavidDCM

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Yes, by now we all know that you don't like the tank... ^^

The text that you quoted is about the PT-91. The Malaysian tank is the PT-91M.
 
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Dzirhan

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
A recent International Defence Review article on the last PT-91M tank being completed has pretty much put out the full specs of it.
 
OPSSG

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
Fyi, the Jan/Feb issue of ADJ 2009 also has an article on MBT Enhancements & Variants, which includes a write up on the PT-91M.

@DavidDCM, thanks for the earlier correction that the PT-91M has a Sagem SAVAN-15 fire control system (and not the SKO-1T DRAWA-T fire control system).
 
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