Pirates

[riksavage]

Alexsa - Correct, however I was referring to secure areas in general, however I have been on super-yachts, which have safe rooms, which you would need cutting equipment to enter and are specifically designed to protect the 'crown jewels' and patron.

 

[John Sansom]

Hmmmm. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that I become super rich and have the yacht to prove it, I rather suspect that I would be unwilling to lock myself, family, and crew into a "safe" room while pirates have the run of my vessel.

What happens if, in their frustration, they decide to sink me, or if they decide to take me in tow to their home port where "cutting" can more conveniently be carried out? Doesn't sound like fun to me.

Despite large-ish legal problems associated with on-board weapons--with the exception of acoustic devices--there are certain "responsive" weapons which can be fashioned at sea and then broken down on making port--only to be re-assembled when one is outward bound once more.

Sadly, it would be somewhat inappropriate for me to describe them here lest the lunatic fringe....well, you know. However, once broken down, their components are wholly innocent and can quite legitimately pass inspection by visiting authorities.

A skipper/owner's choice to go this imaginative route is, of course, a personal matter depending on conditions assessment, self-confidence, and, of course, "technical and mechanical" ability.

 

[dragonfire]

Not all ship owners are rich. The current economic pinch combined with the fact the industry is coming off a peak means many ship owners are under considerable financial stress (some of it self imposed).

Alexsa - if i sound argumentative - then apologies in advance - but all i am saying is tht the guy who got killed was a fisherman - such ppl normaly sustain a family as possibly it's sole bread winner, now imagine the situation if more such killings happen, the politicians would face heat to take solid actions beyond deployment in the region

 

[gf0012-aust]

What happens if, in their frustration, they decide to sink me, or if they decide to take me in tow to their home port where "cutting" can more conveniently be carried out? Doesn't sound like fun to me.

I can think of any number of blokes from my generation (on the starboard side of the deficit!) who have done the "big boat wandering around the near regions" grey nomad thing..... I'd say all of therm carry broken centre fire weapons of some sort. None of them believed that the local maritime constabulary would get to them in time so elected to run the risk of having at least something to respond with. Once they get into international waters, and depending where they're off to, they bring them out as insurance.

heavy fishing lines and waterproof bags .......

 

[riksavage]

Hmmmm. In the extraordinarily unlikely event that I become super rich and have the yacht to prove it, I rather suspect that I would be unwilling to lock myself, family, and crew into a "safe" room while pirates have the run of my vessel.

What happens if, in their frustration, they decide to sink me, or if they decide to take me in tow to their home port where "cutting" can more conveniently be carried out? Doesn't sound like fun to me.

Despite large-ish legal problems associated with on-board weapons--with the exception of acoustic devices--there are certain "responsive" weapons which can be fashioned at sea and then broken down on making port--only to be re-assembled when one is outward bound once more.

Sadly, it would be somewhat inappropriate for me to describe them here lest the lunatic fringe....well, you know. However, once broken down, their components are wholly innocent and can quite legitimately pass inspection by visiting authorities.

A skipper/owner's choice to go this imaginative route is, of course, a personal matter depending on conditions assessment, self-confidence, and, of course, "technical and mechanical" ability.

Most historical piracy incidents (since WWII) have involved pirates boarding ships and going for the 'quick hit', removing cash and any items they can sell (radio equipment, GPS, crew personal items etc. etc.). It's only recently off the Gulf of Aden that we have witnessed the seizing of an entire ship and crew for financial gain. Primary area of interest on boarding tends to be the captains safe to steal any cash / valuables contained therein (used for incidentals, incurred disbursements, payment of salaries in some cases). Often the pirates minimise the time spent on board because they have no idea if a friendly vessel or worse naval / coast guard asset is nearby.

The principle behind a safe room on a super-yacht is to protect the owner and family (female members in particular). Often the room is concealed and not advertised. The Captain will remain on the bridge and negotiate with the pirates and offer a cash incentive to leave, intention being to convince the pirates the owner is not aboard, the vessel is in transit and this is all we have in the safe, take it and leave. Now clearly this will only work if the pirates do not intend stealing the entire vessel, or worse sink the ship (very, very rare). At the end of the day the pirates primary motive is financial, killing the crew and passengers ups the anti for no real gain.

If you are going to spend 100 - 150 million on a private yacht then increased security measures, whether physical or procedural is taken very seriously, at the end of the day having a safe room available gives you more options in a crisis situation.

 

[youpii]

Japan will also send navy ships to protect Japanese ships around Somalia
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/29/world/africa/29pirates.html

 

[John Sansom]

No problem there...and I understand the principle, riksavage. But we're still talking super yacht lingo and making assumptions about the intelligence of the pirates and the fidelity of one's own crew members (who would no doubt consider their lives to be seriously under threat).

Other considerations would include the potential ability of the yacht to outrun any wannabe attackers and, of course, the possible value of the yacht itself in the pirates' eyes. Fact is, there may be a market for it subsequent to a little refitting and facelifting.

Feanor's earlier posting about fitting a civilian vessel with rpg defence capabilities may indeed be, if not the wave of the future, at least a ripple on the sea of reaction. I must admit that I kind of tend to noisy and dangerous defensive measures....although I also have to admit that where I am the situation ain't.

 

[OPSSG]

Feb 12, 2009 - Like Japan, the Singapore Navy will also join international efforts to tackle piracy and protect ships that sail through the Gulf of Aden and will join the newly-formed multi-national Combined Task Force 151, which is US led.

Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean told the country’s parliament today that Singapore would be deploying a Endurance Class vessel, with two Super Puma helicopters for a period of three months this year.

I assume the Singapore Navy will deploy with the usual USVs and landing crafts. The Endurance Class are LPDs (or landing platform docks). These 8,500 ton vessels (when fully loaded) have 2 helicopter landing pads and a hanger. There is also well-dock at the rear of the vessel. I expect the vessels to deploy with 150 to 180 naval and air force personnel.

The Singapore Shipping Association praised the move to joint the patrols. “As SSA, we strongly welcome Singapore’s decision to join the multinational effort to suppress piracy in the Gulf of Aden,” said SSA president SS Teo. “Not only is this an indication of Singapore’s commitment to international efforts protecting vessels passing through the region, but a strong measure of reassurance to owners, shippers and seafarers alike.”

 

[dragonfire]

News Update

US Navy nabs pirates after distress call by Indian ship

Dubai (PTI): Suspected pirates on Thursday attempted to hijack an Indian ship in the Gulf of Aden but were apprehended by a US missile cruiser which "quickly" responded to the merchant vessel's distress call.

The Indian-flagged Motor Vessel Premdivya sent a distress call reporting that she had been fired by a small skiff and suspected pirates were attempting to board it.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/000200902130320.htm

-

The USN Missile cruiser USS Vella Gulf intercepted the skiff carrying the Pirates and shot warning shots in the cease and desist mode and then boarded the skiff and arrested the pirates, the pirates currently on board will be transfered to the US naval supply ship Lewis and Clark. Also present in the scene was another USN asset the guided missile destroyer USS Mahan. This is apparently the second arrest of pirates by the Vella Gulf, a day earlier the vessel had also arrested 7 pirates in a similar encounter, hope they are not taken to Guantanemo

 

[funtz]

Russian navy captures 10 Somali pirates
A Russian nuclear-powered cruiser has captured 10 Somali pirates in the Indian Ocean armed with grenade launchers, automatic rifles and landmines.


Last Updated: 10:52AM GMT 13 Feb 2009

"The nuclear cruiser Pyotr Veliky has detained three small pirate boats," said Igor Dygalo, a navy spokesman, adding that 10 armed men of Somali citizenship were seized in the operation on Thursday.

The pirates had been spotted by the cruiser's helicopter southeast of the Yemeni island of Socotra in the Indian Ocean, the spokesman told AFP.

"It was visually established how weapons were being dumped from the boats into the sea," Mr Dygalo said in a separate statement.

He added that the navy managed to confiscate grenade launchers, automatic rifles, landmines and 500 grams of a "narcotic substance," among other things.

The news of the Somali pirates' detention comes as the crew of a Ukrainian ship captured by Somali pirates arrived home at Kiev airport on Friday after a 19-week hijacking ordeal.

Man, if we consider the size of it, this is really the most weird use for such a huge and powerful ship (25,000 tons 20 shipwreck missiles, 12X8 long range anti air missiles in revolver launchers, all the electronic equipment)

although i understand the Russian navy is building up from the glory days of the Soviet navy, and that will require a lot of experience around the world
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor.../Russian-navy-captures-10-Somali-pirates.html

just above the post indicates USS Vella Gulf (CG-72) a Ticonderoga class Aegis guided missile cruiser(a 9000 ton ship, 122 Mk 41 VLS, 8 harpoon missiles, the biggest baddest naval radar on earth).

vs.
View attachment 3486

This seems to me to be a huge waste of resources.

 

[AegisFC]

Man, if we consider the size of it, this is really the most weird use for such a huge and powerful ship (25,000 tons 20 shipwreck missiles, 12X8 long range anti air missiles in revolver launchers, all the electronic equipment)

It provides them with a great training opportunity that is cheap and gives Russia a bit of good PR.
It probably also has better range and provisions for the crew than a frigate. Plus the ship is just intimidating looking.

just above the post indicates USS Vella Gulf (CG-72) a Ticonderoga class Aegis guided missile cruiser(a 9000 ton ship, 122 Mk 41 VLS, 8 harpoon missiles, the biggest baddest naval radar on earth).

vs.
View attachment 3486

This seems to me to be a huge waste of resources.

Yes and no. The ship is already deployed to the region so you might as well use it for whatever mission comes up. The Tico's have great command and control facilities, a hangar and and room to hold captives until they can be moved somewhere else.

Way back in 2001 the destroyer I was on took part in the blockade against Iraq, every US (except the carriers) and allied ship in the region did boarding, captures of Iraqi oil smugglers and provided security crews until the ship could be towed to a port and auctioned off. The point is you use what you got and if the cruiser or amphib has to help so be it.

 

[funtz]

Yes and no. The ship is already deployed to the region so you might as well use it for whatever mission comes up. The Tico's have great command and control facilities, a hangar and and room to hold captives until they can be moved somewhere else.

Way back in 2001 the destroyer I was on took part in the blockade against Iraq, every US (except the carriers) and allied ship in the region did boarding, captures of Iraqi oil smugglers and provided security crews until the ship could be towed to a port and auctioned off. The point is you use what you got and if the cruiser or amphib has to help so be it.

Does that not interfere with the primary mission goal of the ship?

I assume if a ship is deployed to a region it will have a purpose of being there.

 

[sandman]

Does that not interfere with the primary mission goal of the ship?

I assume if a ship is deployed to a region it will have a purpose of being there.

That purpose is primarily boardings.

 

[OPSSG]

Please see a detailed Vanity Fair story (April 2009 issue) on the Somali pirates capture of the French luxury cruise ship Le Ponant and the partial recovery of the $2.15 million ransom. Describing the terrifying attack, the ordeal of the ship’s epicurean crew, and the tense negotiations, the Vanity Fair author, William Langewiesche, examines the ruthless calculus behind a new age of piracy.

...One of the ironies at play is that the maritime industry being victimized is itself a standard-bearer for the advantages that exist in a world beyond law and regulation. But Marchesseau was not thinking about that. He planned to traverse the Gulf of Aden exactly as the French Navy recommended, moving precisely along the centerline and skirting each coast by an equal 100 miles... In any event, they would be in the most dangerous zone for only about 36 hours. Marchesseau was not very worried.

But on the morning of the third day out from the Seychelles, with hundreds of miles still to sail before the turn point beyond Socotra, he received word from the global Piracy Reporting Centre, in Kuala Lumpur, that pirate attacks in the Gulf of Aden were again on the rise...

Marchesseau assembled the crew to review the situation. He pointed out that thousands of ships pass through the Gulf of Aden every year, that the Ponant itself had made the passage 12 times before, and that they would be in communication with the French and allied navies. Nonetheless, the situation had deteriorated, and the crew would have to take defensive measures—standing reinforced watches, blacking out the windows, preparing the fire hoses, and trailing lines from the stern to ensnare the propellers of small boats approaching from behind. From what was known of Somali patterns, an assault was more likely in daylight than at night. Marchesseau said that the low marina deck aft would be the obvious place for pirates to climb aboard. It was all very unlikely, but there was one other point he needed to make: given the obvious risks to the women if the Ponant came under attack, he expected all seven of them to move immediately into the forward storage hold, a sub-deck space toward the bow beneath the crew’s quarters, where pirates would be unlikely to look.

But it still seemed unreal... Blacked out, they sailed past Socotra in the night. The following day, they turned west and headed for the midpoint entrance to the Gulf of Aden, about 300 miles ahead. Marchesseau sent a position report to the French Navy. The wind was light. The sails were up. Marchesseau ran a combination fire and abandon-ship drill, and was pleased with the results. He inspected the storage holds for cleanliness and order. In the afternoon he gave the crew time to relax. Two women put on bathing suits and lounged on the upper deck looking beautiful in the sun. Two decks below, Bertrand Viallet cranked some music up full blast. Marchesseau settled in with a biography of the explorer Captain Cook. The sun set, and the wind shifted to the southeast, freshened, and filled the sails from behind. The night passed without event. By morning the Ponant had progressed some way into the Gulf of Aden and was rushing westward at its maximum practical speed of 13 knots...

“They’re Coming!”...

 

[John Sansom]

Many thanks, OPSSG. The saga of the Ponant was certainly an eye-opener with respect to the attitudinal aspects of the involved govenments and the pirates.

One is left to wonder if a salutory levelling of Garacad might not be in order--subsequent , of course, to a 48-hour notice. This is not a suggestion which will sit well with those who prefer to be the sheep rather than the sheep dogs, but, hey, somewhere along the road something has to happen.

Thanks again, OPSSG, and I am referring the item to all and sundry within my ken.

 

[OPSSG]

Many thanks, OPSSG. The saga of the Ponant was certainly an eye-opener with respect to the attitudinal aspects of the involved governments and the pirates.

One is left to wonder if a salutory levelling of Garacad might not be in order--subsequent , of course, to a 48-hour notice. This is not a suggestion which will sit well with those who prefer to be the sheep rather than the sheep dogs, but, hey, somewhere along the road something has to happen...

John, indeed I too was shocked about the attitudes of the governments and surprised by the lack of fear by the pirates, even when challenged by navy ships.

I am just wondering if we, the countries who contribute to multi-national Combined Task Force 151, have got our approach wrong by using our very expensive navies.

I also wonder if we should be concurrently funding a lower tech coast guard to supplement the activities of Combined Task Force 151. BTW, I am aware that there is no effective government onshore (which would hamper the formation and funding of such a body).

I have just posted the same link in another thread on how the Sri Lanka Navy who has been transformed from a constabulary service into a counter-insurgency force, to battle the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam. In fact, the area where the Sea Tigers operate is constantly patrolled by what the SLN terms “defence barriers” of vessels four layers deep, consisting of:

(i) fast attack craft (FAC),
(ii) offshore patrol vessels (OPVs),
(iii) gun boats, and
(iv) the SLN’s Rapid Action Boat Squadron (RABS) and Special Boat Squadron (SBS),​

eliminating the LTTE’s seaward escape route and preventing supplies from reaching the rebels. Of note is the mounting of infantry support weapons on 14 m and 17 m boats. These include a double-barrelled 23 mm gun, 40 mm AGLs and 12.7 mm (.50 calibre) machine guns to counter the Sea Tigers' swarm tactics. Tim Fish from Jane's Navy I'tl (see link on the Sri Lanka Navy website) reports on how Sri Lanka counters Sea Tigers’ swarm tactics. [Note: A hat tip to 'pirate' for posting this in another forum first.]

The Sri Lanka Navy's approach seems to work for their local conditions. And the reason I am having doubts is because the current model of Combined Task Force 151 does not seem to contain elements that assisted SEA in reducing the pirate scourge in the Malacca Straits. There is an ISEAS viewpoint published in Nov 2008 on point. I would welcome corrections if I have gone off tangent.

 

[John Sansom]

There's another aspect to this, OPSSG. Somewhere in the wake of the more recent postings several mentions were made of safe quarters aboard ship in which female passengers, crew members, children, et al could be stashed away from the view of boarding pirates.

Interestingly, this is what happened on the Ponant, but it didn't work. The ladies (and one male crew member), who had been instructed to lock themselves into a reasonably well-appointed forward stowage compartment, had to come out in the end as the pirates directed their prize close in to their home port. They were lucky that their captors didn't get all strung out by their sudden appearance, particularly since the Ponant's skipper had sworn that all the crew members intially subjected to the K-47 roundup were just that--all the crew members, and that nobody was hidden away.

The Vanity Fair story did leave one mystery dangling. HMCS Charlottetown was apparently the first warship on the scene, even sending a chopper over to investigate. Then she disappeared, never to be heard from again.
Presumably her mysterious departure was occasioned by word that French naval units were on their way...or maybe she just didn't want to get involved?
(Under instructions?)

It is to wonder.

Oh, yes... Thanks for the really interesting information on the Sri Lankan Navy program adjustments

 

[John Sansom]

This is a request to moderators....

The other day an advisory on a posting to this forum topic appeared inquiring about the importation of drug paraphernalia to the United States. Yeah, right. Immediately subsequent to this porridge-brained posting, everything collapsed. I'm assuming a virus was introduced by the aforementioned poster. Can you confirm...or was there another cause?

Sorry to be slightly off topic, but......

 

[mickk]

There was some great footage on the Greek news the other day of a Greek Heli hunting down some Somali pirates. A couple of bursts infront didnt do much, so they then did a couple of strafing runs alongside it.

Looked to me that they also fired at the stern of the boat, possibly the engine. It was one of those long banana boat things.

Pirates stopped, dead in the water it looked like, then cut to a Destroyer heading in from the horizon to nab em.

Was great stuff!

 

[John Sansom]

Good on ya, Greece...but only if you had the right blokes!