Thats just not the case.the thing is stealth is in a huge way determined by the shape of the plane. The F22 did not compromise this and the F 35 did. So is Russia gonna sell the PAK FA designed to be optimum for stealth to customer countries?
Wasnt the F 35 built with reduced stealth as compared to the F 22 as it was destined for export? even the nozzles are not 2D which is more stealthier than a rounded 1? Or am I missing something?Thats just not the case.
Every released manned LO/VLO aircraft since 1957 has utilized different signature management principles. Shape is just one subset of the design requirements - and the emphasis has shifted into active signal management as opposed to shape and passive management. Even this has gone into a cycle.
The sig management for the F-117 is completely different to F-22 or the JSF - and yet the JSF is regarded unofficially as having superior RCS at various interrogation parameters.
I'm curious as to why you think that JSF compromised the principle when its design requirements and mission profiles are inherently but significantly different from the F-22 anyway.
The only common requirement for both platforms is that they are manned. Their individual platform design was determined by doctrine and mission. profile. Aspect and RCS are a legacy of this.
The JSF is certainly less signature secure in the rear than the F-22 - but I think you're misunderstanding the thrust of my response.Wasnt the F 35 built with reduced stealth as compared to the F 22 as it was destined for export? even the nozzles are not 2D which is more stealthier than a rounded 1? Or am I missing something?
But it conforms with the whole debacle of getting India to join the program, with sukhoi proposing, India rejecting, and they re propose to fit indian requirement, and then india accepting a dual seater config, etc2.i doubt the authencity of that article.indias FGFA wont be that much of difference as said in the article 17.5ton vs 24ton PAK FA,since the differnce will be like F35 and F22 which needs a lot of investment,just look how expensive is the F35 with so many nations participating.
IMO the indian version will be a two seator with different avionics,and may have a different rador.
Softwares are always upgradable. Sure the F22 lacks in that dept as it was designed much earlier, but it surely has more internal space for a big modification, hardware/software to bring it into the league of F 35, or even surpass it coz it would be done much later after F 35 is in service. The latest plane always gets the latest electronics/software/hardware, but design wise they remain the same, which is what my original view is. As per mission requirement being different and such, the B2 is a dedicated bomber, and the F 22 a dedicated A2A, but both could be designed for maximum stealth. I feel that the F 35 even with its different requirement of various threats could still have been designed to be more stealthier towards contemporary threats.The JSF is certainly less signature secure in the rear than the F-22 - but I think you're misunderstanding the thrust of my response.
Both are legacies of design requirements against their mission requirements and doctrine. The F-22 through various methods (not just physical) is the initial superior LO/VLO manager against contemp threats. The JSF however has a superior through life development architecture - and as such is far more sympathetic to various management upgrades. It's already regarded as superior to the F-22 in areas such as software upgrades, software modularity, hardware modularity, etc..... ie it will be easier to migrate future solutions to it and conduct faster iterative development - the F-22 (stemming from the ATF base design) never considered those requirements to the same detail and degree of "future proofing" as the requirements curve was very different..
So, in 5-10 years time the LO/VLO platform specific management gap advantage will inexorably shift towards the JSF - despite it having a "fat arse"
TVC on aircraft is not the big deal that it used to be - the weapons system solution is far more important. eg flight response and profile of the weapons system is far more important than the flight profile and handling of the platform itself.
People are getting hung up on TVC when its absolute benefit was eroded years ago.
First off, no sh*t F-22 and F-35 can defeat any current fighters. Second off nothing is known about the PAK-FA so how they can make that statement is beyond me. The article reads like something out of a blog.The future may not be bright for the next generation of the Russian fighter. Many Western defense experts believe Russia's fourth-generation fighter jets cannot withstand the U.S. stealth-enabled tandem of F-35 and F-22, which offer high maneuverability and near invisibility to surface radars because of advanced radar suppression equipment. Moreover, U.S.-based simulations and tests suggest that the stealth-enabled fifth-generation F-22 and F-35 can defeat any current aircraft, including the Raptorsky.
Are they saying NAPO owns KnAAPO?NPO Saturn has been determined to lead the work on the engines. The Novosibirsk Aviation Production Association has begun construction of the fifth-generation fighter at its renowned Komsomol'sk-on-Amure Chkalov plant where most Sukhoi fighters are made.
I'd take any arguments that are not based on either hard evidence or logical assumptions with a pinch of salt, be they Russian, European, Chinese or American. How would the USAF know how the PAK-FA will perform considering it is still in the earliest of development stage? They can guesstimate on its likely capabilities from known facts on Russian technical ability on the various technologies involved but there is no way they can know. How con Zhuk claim their small, developmental, 1st gen and non state of the art AESA radar (ZHUK-AE) can detect an F-22A at 90km when they don't even know its RCS?Why is everybody speaking about PAK-FA as about real existing aircraft or "Raptorsky"??
Nobody has even SEEN prototype or something else - there are only rumors in internet and nothinf exact. So there is only info about the model of some AA misiles and their characteristics, about Radar that it will be some AESA (nothing more is said) and that new engines would be called AL-41F (even real characteristics of engines are unknown). So how could they compare F-22 and F-35 with PAK-FA and even with MiG-29SMT and SU-35??
Second - F-22 is not INVISIBLE, it has a low radar-visibility yes but as is said AESA Juk which would be put on MiG-35 can detect it in 90km - but this is also only a statement. So only a statement is F-22 invisibility for land-based radars - who tested it against newest RuRadars from S-400?? If there were such tests then please show a link if it is possible.
The fact is these platforms are evolutionary developments of earlier 4th gen platforms, namely the MiG-29 and Su-27, thus they operate within a set of design limitations. Both these platforms do not have information dominance as a primary design goal, and their avionics capabilities can be estimated with a reasonable level of accuracy. Thus, unless a 4th gen platform has photon torpedoes or the like, a 5th gen fighter is going to hold a significant advantage, period. That stands whether its a MiG-35, Rafale, F/A-18F, Typhoon or J10, its going to be in serious trouble facing a 5th gen threat.and even with MiG-29SMT and SU-35??
Sure, that's how people wargame future scenario's.So you can estimate what Ruarmy can do or what can't in future, yes?
I think you are mistaken sir. MiG-29SMT does NOT have an AESA radar. The only AESA the Russians are anywhere near to fielding is the ZHUK-AE for the MiG-35 not the SMT, and that platform is not even in production yet. The SMT is a late 90's upgrade program intended to allow the baseline MiG-29 to employ the same weapons systems as the MiG-29M providing multirole capability. The Russians have not even deployed an AESA operationally yet.on MiG-29SMT is also put AESA Juk and it is highly modernized.
But we're not talking about F-15 vs Su-27, we're talking about F-15 vs MiG-21 i.e. a generational difference, which, even if the legacy platform is super duper its going to be outclassed. That's a fact of life.In 80-s USAF also fought that F-15, F-16 is much more better then SU-27 and MiG-29 and then was realised that it was not so impossible that F-15,16 could lose. I mean that nobody has exact info and talking about a virtual thing that doesn't really exists.
Fine F-16 vs MiG-21, the outcome is the same.No no no. I can't totally agree with this. MiG-21 and F-15 are not only in different generations but also in different class - MiG-21 is much more near F-16 then F-15 and fro the F-15 there was SU-15 and MiG-25 (the 1 aircraft of 4 gen)
From your linkhttp://www.migavia.ru/eng/military_e/MiG_29_SMT_e.htm
read this in the official site of MiG
The ZHUK-ME is a mechanically scanned, slotted planar array, pulse dopler radar. That is a totally different form of array design to AESA. Its the same radar as the original Mig-29, with some additional upgrades and modes.Russian Aircraft Corporation said:The aircraft is equipped with multifunctional multi-mode pulse-Doppler airborne "Zhuk-ME" radar manufactured by "Fazotron-NIIP" Corporation. The radar is provided with a slot antenna array. As compared with the airborne radar of the previous generation the "Zhuk-ME" has enhanced scanning angles in azimuth, twice increased detection range, less weight and higher reliability. The "Zhuk-ME" radar provides for tracking up to 10 air targets with capability of simultaneous firing of 4 targets with missiles.
from wikiThe Zhuk radar is modular in design with older variants of the radar such as the Zhuk-M and Zhuk-MS capable of being upgraded to the latest Zhuk-A standard.
read higher.From your link
Originally Posted by Russian Aircraft Corporation
The aircraft is equipped with multifunctional multi-mode pulse-Doppler airborne "Zhuk-ME" radar manufactured by "Fazotron-NIIP" Corporation. The radar is provided with a slot antenna array. As compared with the airborne radar of the previous generation the "Zhuk-ME" has enhanced scanning angles in azimuth, twice increased detection range, less weight and higher reliability. The "Zhuk-ME" radar provides for tracking up to 10 air targets with capability of simultaneous firing of 4 targets with missiles.
Sory for my mistake, I ment COULD BE put, according to modular system of this radar.on MiG-29SMT is also put AESA Juk and it is highly modernized.