Future multi-role fighter for RV i PVO (a.k.a Serbian & Montenegrin AF)

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
I mean that a Serbian order isn't large enough (unless you guys plan to get 24-48 planes) to be cost effective. I suspect that unless the MiG-35 wins the Indian contract, it won't see the light of day because nobody else will buy enough for it to be cost effective to do a serial production run.
 

Kosovo=Serbia

Banned Member
I mean that a Serbian order isn't large enough (unless you guys plan to get 24-48 planes) to be cost effective. I suspect that unless the MiG-35 wins the Indian contract, it won't see the light of day because nobody else will buy enough for it to be cost effective to do a serial production run.
If SAF decide to buy Mig-35s, I dont believe that will be more than 14 jets.
Thats too small for serial production start (if India say no ). . .
Do you know approximately price of Mig -35 and Su- 30 ?
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Why 14? Squadron of 12 and two for training? I don't think a Mi-35 trainer has been developed to date. Plus they already fly 5 fulcrums. Makes far more sense and is far more realistic to modernize them, and buy additional ones to form a squadron.
 

kay_man

New Member
Why 14? Squadron of 12 and two for training? I don't think a Mi-35 trainer has been developed to date. Plus they already fly 5 fulcrums. Makes far more sense and is far more realistic to modernize them, and buy additional ones to form a squadron.
i thought the squadron is of about 20 jets? or does it differ from air force to air force?
also if you ask me the chances of MiG-35 winning the indian contract are around 50-50.
since the LCA will go into production next year the Gripen is out of competition. And so is the Eurofighter for costing reasons. I doubt India will go for American jets.
So basically its a fight between the Rafael and Mig-35.
I hope the MiG wins:D:D
 

kato

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
i thought the squadron is of about 20 jets? or does it differ from air force to air force?
Of course it differs. Worldwide, it goes anywhere from 8 to 36, roughly.

Although 12-16 is sorta a standard with Eastern European nations, same with 18-24 for Western NATO nations, with a number of exceptions of course.
 

Kosovo=Serbia

Banned Member
Why 14? Squadron of 12 and two for training? I don't think a Mi-35 trainer has been developed to date. Plus they already fly 5 fulcrums. Makes far more sense and is far more realistic to modernize them, and buy additional ones to form a squadron.
Why 14? Squadron of 12 and two for training?
Yes, I think so .
But, it depends beside of the money, also what army experts figure out as best.
Maybe, they will buy more Air Defense systems, and cut number of multi role
fighters, or they will modernize our other older jets to provide satisfactorily air defense role, combine with several new jets. Of course, it would be best if they buy all new jets and AD systems and radars, to replace outdated cans like J-22s, and Mig-21s, but when you put all economy on paper, it's not really payable.
And that can also affect other parts and aspects of the army, ones from
that resources where cut short, for the purpose of AF and AD. . .

Personally I would like army to buy 23 more Mig-29s, to form with existing
5 -two solid squadrons. . .
And if they do, what they planing to do with all other aircraft's, and if is not too much, little more modern AD (S-300 is just fine), then there is nothing
more I, or any citizen can wish or ask from our army. I will personally go
to the mr. Sutanovac and kiss his ass :D
(not literally of course)
 
I'd humbly suggest that Serbia buys F-16s.

Cheap, adequate, and supported by a global network. Whilst the Russians have historical [military and geopolitical] links with Serbia, I cannot forsee any conflict that Serbia will become involved with.

Ergo, cheap-and-cheerful: Fighting-Falcon!
 

Stranac

New Member
Welcome friend, where you heard that ?
I know that BiH decidedly decide to retire all of its aircraft's , and to keep maybe several heli.
All of its aircrafts, and think few heli. BiH will put on sale, and only potential buyer and parties is Serbia, also for about 80 tanks which BiH retires . . .

BiH is joining NATO, that is problem itself ;)
Well it is totaly unbeleivable for BiH...

(a) To get in EU
(b) Be a part of NATO

Because they have since their regime from SFRJ

but in the end I just can say.... Svašta !
I mean everything
 

wimpymouse

Banned Member
I'd humbly suggest that Serbia buys F-16s.

Cheap, adequate, and supported by a global network. Whilst the Russians have historical [military and geopolitical] links with Serbia, I cannot forsee any conflict that Serbia will become involved with.

Ergo, cheap-and-cheerful: Fighting-Falcon!
After wha the US, but also the EU, did to their country, not only Serbia, but that they caused a war and divide between the Yougoslavs, to after that go and give them their money? Would you feed a dog that bit you?
 

Kosovo=Serbia

Banned Member
After wha the US, but also the EU, did to their country, not only Serbia, but that they caused a war and divide between the Yougoslavs, to after that go and give them their money? Would you feed a dog that bit you?
That is politics, government decide, not ordinary peoples.
Government criteria are pure logic and economy algebra, not emotion or moral
principles. That keeps world in relative peace .
 

Kosovo=Serbia

Banned Member
I am not 100% sure, but I think army budget for 2008 iswas big as the budged for 2007 and 2006 together, and for 2009 is supposed to be even bigger.
I think gov. agree to keep the budged big as planed, despite economy crisis.
+ army planed to sell all needless, empty, half destroyed buildings which are in exclusive locations, and for which army paying huge amount of money. . .
Cepotine base is now finished, and bigger part of army costs went there, now army can put investments somewhere else. . .
I dont know precise numbers, dont take this post flighty because of that. . .
There are numbers, I am just to busy now to search for it, if you want I will
post them for few days, anyway this are all facts, which points that army will probably have money in the recent future for such expensive projects, as getting new jets (well, its obvious :rolleyes: ) but no Gripens or Fs , first
because that will be still to expensive ( to buy, to maintain, to train pilots on, to fly ) , and second because of state policy, history, tradition (braca rusi ;) ) and etc...
In the time when Serbia will probably announce tender notice, 2013 most probably, Russia will have much bigger role in the Serbian military than now,
because of many factors like: economic and political rise, stronger and
stronger Serb-Russian relation by every day, new projected Russian pipeline throughout Serbia, selling Serbian oil industry to Russian Gazprom, military strengthening of Russia, every day bigger and bigger political and also economic support from Russia, and most probably soon arriving of 200 btr-90s, and dozens of other modern Russian armored cars (like t-98 ) :)
and many many other factors. . .
So, I will say there is around 75 % that Serbia will get some Russian jets, rather than U.S or E.U . . .
The point is which one ? Su-30s are great, but army have more experience
with Migs, my opinion is that army should buy more Mig-29s (modernized off course ) or if is anyhow possible several Mig-35s . . .
Now, we need here someone who really now everything about Migs, pilots maybe, to discuss which one and why ?
And also, what are you think about Mig-27 variants, or even Mig -31 var.
To correct myself, with some fresh infos...
:( Military budged for 2009 IS shortout due to economy crisis,
and Cepotine military base is not really over yet, maybe at feb 2009.
But good news are that military sold few exclusive and useless buildings and
land properties for BIG money to some RICH Italians :italy :D
Smaller budget is going to affect mostly army plans to move to a completely professional force and abolish conscription since 2010, the new dead line probably would be 2012 .
But will no affect that much, army modernization, maybe few months lateness.
And also tender notice for jets will not be announced at 2013, but at December 2011.
Sorry, no links, infos from the first hand ;)
Lets lift this thread to pro level, if there are any pilots, ex or present jets engineers, retired officers who know something about jets on strategy level,
please post your opinions here or if you want, you can sent it to me on PM.
I am very interested in these thing ;)
 

wimpymouse

Banned Member
That is politics, government decide, not ordinary peoples.
Government criteria are pure logic and economy algebra, not emotion or moral
principles. That keeps world in relative peace .
A purchase of foreign weapons that don't involve politics? Look around you and you will see what I mean. History does play a role to. Specially recent history.
 

Kosovo=Serbia

Banned Member
A purchase of foreign weapons that don't involve politics? Look around you and you will see what I mean. History does play a role to. Specially recent history.
Of course it does, but like you wrote, politics, and history play certain role,
but that is not determinative !
The politics and history is the factor that making more chance for us to by
Russian jets in this case, actually history is, politics is variable factor, just few
years ago it was 100 % pro western, now it is about 50:50 .
Because of history and tradition mostly, I wrote that there are (from my angle) around 75% chance to buy Russian jets !
 

wimpymouse

Banned Member
Of course it does, but like you wrote, politics, and history play certain role,
but that is not determinative !
The politics and history is the factor that making more chance for us to by
Russian jets in this case, actually history is, politics is variable factor, just few
years ago it was 100 % pro western, now it is about 50:50 .
Because of history and tradition mostly, I wrote that there are (from my angle) around 75% chance to buy Russian jets !
OK, then we agree.
 

biggy

New Member
You are wrong the US offered serbia F-16 and F-18 ,France rafale, Russia su30, mig 29m and mig 35 and china jf-17 and eurofighter



I am confused...tell me why did Serbia replace its MiG-29 with MiG-21? Was it cost of maintainance which Serbia could no longer hold?

My guess is that Serbia would & should settle for Su-27/30. Even though the current govt is acceptable to the major European countries & USA, you can also say to NATO, I doubt any of the major fighter AC producing country would be willing to provide serbia with fighter jets at this moment. Russia has been closest allie of Serbia in war & peace, hence Su-30 seems better option or they can settle for more modern versions of MiG-29 & save some money on cost per unit & training of main front line pilots who already have MiG-29 training.

Other wise Serbia can ask India for LCA. That would be better replacement for MiG-21.
Serbia can also ask for FC-1 (Pakistani JF-17) from China but Pakistan wont allow the sale, so its better LCA from India.

You know what? Serbia should buy 2nd hand MiG-29 & Su-27 from Ukrain. Russian product is much better for Serbia.
 

RobWilliams

Super Moderator
Staff member
You resurrected a thread which has been inactive for over 4 years for that?

Scratch that, the specific post you're replying too is closer to 8 years old.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
You resurrected a thread which has been inactive for over 4 years for that?

Scratch that, the specific post you're replying too is closer to 8 years old.
Scary thing is, they've still not bought any aircraft :)


And I thought the *Indian* MOD took it's sweet time...
 

Lcf

Member
Scary thing is, they've still not bought any aircraft :)


And I thought the *Indian* MOD took it's sweet time...
And they will not in any time soon, if you ask me, and even if they do, it will be Russian jets. My guess is, Russians will provide a loan just like they did not so long ago for modernization of state railways. As you may guess, politics will do its job like always...
 

Lcf

Member
It's been going on for a while now, and it seems the deal is about to be struck. Six MiG-29M2 fighters and two ground-based radars.

Russia will provide Serbia with an export credit for purchasing MiG-29M2 fighters - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM

By the way, there was an article in Serbian about this, about a month ago, and the author mentioned that Serbia is still under NATOs military equipment embargo and that, for that reason, buying or renting aircrafts from NATO member states is still impossible. It was a one-liner so no other info was provided. I can't find anything else about this, so any thoughts?
 

Haavarla

Active Member
NATO Equipment embargo or not. Mig-29M2 it is..

This will ofcource be part of a future Add-On deal for further Migs

Anyway, Mig-29M2 is a good bang for the bucks and Serbia AF has some Mig-29 know how.
 
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