Iraq to Receive M1's?!

[F-15 Eagle]

Not at all. I mean Saudis have them, and they're quite a bit more unpleasant then the current Iraqi government. Not to mention that the variant they're likely to get would be M1A1. I don't see the M1A2, never mind SEP, being sold to them. And it's only 140 units. Less then a single armored division.

In my honest opinion the U.S. needs to stop selling its weapons to countries that don't like them. This is a perfect example and those M1s would be better spent rebuilding the worn out equipment of the U.S. military from 7 years of fighting.

 

[eckherl]

Don`t start popping Champagne Cognac corks just yet, it still has not been decided on.

 

[radiosilence]

In my honest opinion the U.S. needs to stop selling its weapons to countries that don't like them. This is a perfect example and those M1s would be better spent rebuilding the worn out equipment of the U.S. military from 7 years of fighting.

Weapon sales not only generate revenue but also influence. In the case of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, two countries with some of the largest known oil reserves.

 

[Feanor]

In my honest opinion the U.S. needs to stop selling its weapons to countries that don't like them. This is a perfect example and those M1s would be better spent rebuilding the worn out equipment of the U.S. military from 7 years of fighting.

Of course. But a government, any government, is anything but honest. The guiding principles of a governments decisions aren't morals, they're based on pragmatism.

 

[skum2747]

Not at all. I mean Saudis have them, and they're quite a bit more unpleasant then the current Iraqi government. Not to mention that the variant they're likely to get would be M1A1. I don't see the M1A2, never mind SEP, being sold to them. And it's only 140 units. Less then a single armored division.

Hmm that makes sense. But I agree with a few folks. We really need to stop selling arms as powerful as the Abrams to folks who really don't like us or have a large contingent of people (i.e. terrorists, mercenaries, freedom fighters) who don't like us. One day these things will bite us in the rear. Granted that these countries as far as I know do not have the powerful NATO rounds that we use.

 

[V4.SKUNK]

That is in fact a false statement, L16A1 propellant charges have in fact given inaccuracy issues when firing Charm three ammunition, isnt L27 and L27A1 designed for L30. you also have designed a L30A1. I will not even go into the Challenger 2 trials conducted by the Greeks who in fact found accuracy issues with a wide array of projectiles, the issue is the charges when fired during extreme temperatures, just ask yourself why the Arjun went with a full size combustable cartridge, I would agree with you that a design change would have to be done to the rear of the turret for a bustle loading system, but this should not be a show stopper or cost loads of money for this upgrade, and why even place a bulk supply of ammunition in the hull, not saying that it cannot be done because it can be done with the safety feature of blowoff panels as demonstrated on a XK2.

Challenger 2 not going with a L55 was decided when.

I think the L27 was manufactured for CR2's release, but it was designed around the L11 gun.
The L30a1 is also the gun currently used on CR2.
British CR2's have had little to no problems in Iraq with the charges failing to detonate properly.
When did the army ever decide to use L55??? They never did, they only tested 1 gun for evaluation, and decided it's no good for the CR2(Turret and hull re-design). IMO if CR2 was ever going to get a smoothbore it would have been the L44 when CR2 was being designed......

 

[eckherl]

I think the L27 was manufactured for CR2's release, but it was designed around the L11 gun.
The L30a1 is also the gun currently used on CR2.
British CR2's have had little to no problems in Iraq with the charges failing to detonate properly.
When did the army ever decide to use L55??? They never did, they only tested 1 gun for evaluation, and decided it's no good for the CR2(Turret and hull re-design). IMO if CR2 was ever going to get a smoothbore it would have been the L44 when CR2 was being designed......

Janes announced a month back that the L55 project is in fact officially dropped due to defence budget issues, this was announced and confimed after my last post on the subject.

As far as propellant performance issues I will stand by my coments inregards to it.

 

[eckherl]

Oh Boy,

Iraq just may in fact get the M1A1 a total in excess of 260 of them, the bugger though is that they will be new knock off kits compared to a certain version recieved by Egypt, so ha ha, no U.S military versions with certain technologies will be made available.

 

[kato]

Well, it's not like the US has a lot of tank designs to throw around that can be financed through FMS money. 15, 20 years ago they would have had to make do with third-hand M48 or M60.

 

[Waylander]

Yeeehaw, that's defenitely what they need...oh no wait it's not.

Ok, US companies might get back the FMS money with maintenance contracts that's a plus.

 

[carman1877]

I think it could be a good idea if we train them and help them to use them properly. Howevere with that said we have to amke sure that like in Afghanistan they dont use our equipmetn against us. only if talliban or who ever(dont know much about Middle East) could steal the tanks. but that is not likely to happen.

 

[eckherl]

Yeeehaw, that's defenitely what they need...oh no wait it's not.

Ok, US companies might get back the FMS money with maintenance contracts that's a plus.

I am just happy that they are not getting a true U.S or Australian operating version, and you know Waylander that there is money to be made on those knock off kits, or monkey models.

 

[eckherl]

Well, it's not like the US has a lot of tank designs to throw around that can be financed through FMS money. 15, 20 years ago they would have had to make do with third-hand M48 or M60.

That is true Kato,

But, they are also still slated for M-60 series tanks.

 

[Feanor]

So if they get 260 M1s, will they need the M60's? I'm not sure what the composition of Iraqi infantry and mech. units is, but I know they only have 1 tank div. atm.

 

[eckherl]

So if they get 260 M1s, will they need the M60's? I'm not sure what the composition of Iraqi infantry and mech. units is, but I know they only have 1 tank div. atm.

260 M1 series tanks is a drop in the bucket to meet all of Iraqs military ground force structure, additional tanks will be needed, the more advanced weapons systems will be geared to work more in line with U.S ground forces.

 

[Feanor]

What tank units does the Iraqi Army plan to have, that 260 tanks are a drop in a bucket? multiple tank divisions? Armored units in regular mechanized and light infantry divisions?

 

[eckherl]

What tank units does the Iraqi Army plan to have, that 260 tanks are a drop in a bucket? multiple tank divisions? Armored units in regular mechanized and light infantry divisions?

Yes, for the force structure that they have a need for or envision at least is to have tank levels that can support at least a major confrontation with hostile neighbors, as far as what type of TO&E that they decide to go with remains to be seen, I have heard that some of it will be set up as a U.S force structure while maybe retaining a Russian force structure with certain units, the verdict is still out on that one. This only factors in a active duty structure, we also have to see where the Reserve units play into the overall security of Iraq and what level of training they recieve.

 

[Almaleki]

I'm not too sure but I think there are around 8000 maybe? Someone please correct me if I am wrong thanks.

well i will do ,,,
as you see the iraqis ( we ) may or will be one of your best Allies in the region against Iran >> and as you see the Congress accepted to sale i Iraq how much 252 F-16 Block 52 + which is considered What ?? 4.5 Generation Jet ?? and more than 700 M1A1 Aim or also named M1A1M Tanks and 400 or more Strykers and 400 or more Lavs and 400 or more Romanian Saur 1 APCs Thru USA ??

do you know what do the Mod Minister say about Russian Made Weapons ??
they are Rubbish
and the Only buy for Iraq For Russian Rubbish is the Mi-17 cuz Iraq have 900 Pilot For it ????

so i think that the Abrams is the Best Options

ah < I am Iraqi and i am concerned could i put picture for the Iraqi Security Forces as a Topic ???

Thanks >>

 

[Ryan UK]

more than 700 M1A1 Aim or also named M1A1M Tanks

where did you get the number 700 from? as far as ive seen an order of 140 have been the number requested

 

[Feanor]

well i will do ,,,
as you see the iraqis ( we ) may or will be one of your best Allies in the region against Iran >> and as you see the Congress accepted to sale i Iraq how much 252 F-16 Block 52 + which is considered What ?? 4.5 Generation Jet ?? and more than 700 M1A1 Aim or also named M1A1M Tanks and 400 or more Strykers and 400 or more Lavs and 400 or more Romanian Saur 1 APCs Thru USA ??

I understand you're a new member here. Welcome to defencetalk. Please do post in the introductions thread in the Intros and Off-Topic forum; read the rules and enjoy your stay.

Please do keep in mind when providing numbers you need to provide a source for them. Otherwise they are not worth much.

do you know what do the Mod Minister say about Russian Made Weapons ??
they are Rubbish
and the Only buy for Iraq For Russian Rubbish is the Mi-17 cuz Iraq have 900 Pilot For it ????

Please provide a source for this statement.

so i think that the Abrams is the Best Options

ah < I am Iraqi and i am concerned could i put picture for the Iraqi Security Forces as a Topic ???

Thanks >>

For the pictures, there is an entire separate subforum for them. Feel free to start a topic for it there, and post your images.