Future multi-role fighter for RV i PVO (a.k.a Serbian & Montenegrin AF)

[scg_af]

when i read a bunch of articles from magazines, websites, books, and all that about the RV i PVO, it always mentions that the SCG (Serbia i Crna Gore) is going to get a future fighter. Unfourtunately, i never found out what fighter it was. im new to this forum, so i dont know much. i'll be relying on u airplane experts occasionally....

The MiG-29 used to be Serbia & Montenegro's main fighter plane, but after spring 2004, nearly all of the MiG-29's fighter roles were replaced by the MiG-21. But the MiG-21 will only stay in the RV i PVO until 2014 due to service expiration, and there are no funds to stop this current crisis.

the future fighter is supposedly going to replace the MiG-21. many sources say it will be able to lock on targets that can't be seen from the pilots cockpit. the sources also say it's gonna be supersonic, so it won't be as slow as the G-4 Super Galeb....

there were rumors that the next fighter will be the Sukhoi Su-30, but thats only a rumor. do any of u have a good guess of what this future fighter will be?


any guesses will be apreciated. thanx in advance.

 

[SABRE]

I am confused...tell me why did Serbia replace its MiG-29 with MiG-21? Was it cost of maintainance which Serbia could no longer hold?

My guess is that Serbia would & should settle for Su-27/30. Even though the current govt is acceptable to the major European countries & USA, you can also say to NATO, I doubt any of the major fighter AC producing country would be willing to provide serbia with fighter jets at this moment. Russia has been closest allie of Serbia in war & peace, hence Su-30 seems better option or they can settle for more modern versions of MiG-29 & save some money on cost per unit & training of main front line pilots who already have MiG-29 training.

Other wise Serbia can ask India for LCA. That would be better replacement for MiG-21.
Serbia can also ask for FC-1 (Pakistani JF-17) from China but Pakistan wont allow the sale, so its better LCA from India.

You know what? Serbia should buy 2nd hand MiG-29 & Su-27 from Ukrain. Russian product is much better for Serbia.

 

[scg_af]

the MiG-29 was replaced by the MiG-21 cuz of the NATO war back in 1999. out of the 16-20 MiG-29s Yugoslavia had, only 5 survuived at the end of the war. But those five were left exposed to the elements, (because all the hangars at the airbases were destroyed) and they're getting in bad condition. Only 2 are operational today, and i doubt they'll last much longer.


yes, as u say, im really hoping that they get a few Su-30s. Those are very capable fighters, i hear.


but the new G-4M Super Galeb by Utva is really good, too. it has homing air-to-air missles, Maverick AGM-65 air-to-ground missles, and a ton more. the only deficit is the terribly slow max speed of only 565 mph.

thanx for the info, though!

 

[SABRE]

the MiG-29 was replaced by the MiG-21 cuz of the NATO war back in 1999. out of the 16-20 MiG-29s Yugoslavia had, only 5 survuived at the end of the war. But those five were left exposed to the elements, (because all the hangars at the airbases were destroyed) and they're getting in bad condition. Only 2 are operational today, and i doubt they'll last much longer.


yes, as u say, im really hoping that they get a few Su-30s. Those are very capable fighters, i hear.


but the new G-4M Super Galeb by Utva is really good, too. it has homing air-to-air missles, Maverick AGM-65 air-to-ground missles, and a ton more. the only deficit is the terribly slow max speed of only 565 mph.

thanx for the info, though!

G-4 Super Galeb is more of a trainer than fighter. You can say its a trainer plus very light combat fighter but its combat abilities are very limited. Upgraded MiG-21s (e.g: MiG-21 Bisons) would seem way more superior to it. Its better that Serbia buys Su-27 or 30 or again MiG-19 but upgraded & along with it some of the 2nd hand MiGs from either Russian or India. Otherwise wait for 2014. By than may be NATO will cool down on Serbia & you can go for 2nd hand Belgiun F-16A/B Block 15s. But that seems costly. Serbs have experiance on Russian aircrafts so they should stick to Russian. Pilots might have trouble in communicating with NATO trainers both on the basis of language & patriotism.

 

[scg_af]

G-4 Galebs arent that great, but the RV i PVO have them in relatively large numbers (we currently have 20 of them in inventory), so they have some importance...




MiG-19? Why would the RV i PVO go for some MiG-19s? I thought those were not the greatest airplanes, but i guess many think otherwise...i didnt even know they still made MiG-19s!


Hmm...Belgiumese F-16....I'm not sure. Serbia & Montenegro wouldn't join NATO anytime soon, so why would NATO give F-16s to a country who just tried to beat NATO? Plus, there's no relationship between Belguim and SCG.


However, France is pretty good allies with SCG, so perhaps there's a chance SCG could get some fighters like the Mirage 2000... is that a possibility?


Despite all of that, like you said, Su-27s, Su-30s, or a batch of new MiG-29s would probably be the best choice.

 

[goran]

best solution for Serbia is Su-30s

 

[Wagner243]

if they have the money for it. Not just the cost of aircraft, but the maintance and training that goes with it.

 

[Feanor]

Actually Serbia recently had their MiG-29 refurbished in Russia, possibly modernized. I don't recall exactly. And they are now flying. The best option would be to upgrade the MiG-29 to the SMT standard and purchase an additional 7-9 airframes to form a full squadron, with possibly a couple of trainers.

 

[macman]

Ties look like improving between Russia & Serbia again on a practical level, & as Mig need some orders, it would be worthwhile going for a loan with some money down for the Serbian's.

Mig-29SMT's to build up to squadron level, then Mig-35's would be quite possible in my view.
Mig needs a launch customer for the Mig-35, Serbia needs some modern planes...

RE: current Mig's:

Russia supplies upgraded MiG 29 fighters to Serbia
27.03.2008
Russia supplies upgraded MiG 29 fighters to Serbia

The first upgraded MiG 29 aircraft will soon enter service of the Serbian Air Force. All modification works and restoration airworthy condition is done by Russian Aircraft Corporation MiG.

The contract implies modernization of four combat aircrafts and an operation trainer. The aircrafts will be equipped with new avionic equipment, navigation instruments and radar facilities.

Five Serbian MiG 29 aircrafts used to be on Air Force service of Yugoslavia, which numbered over 30 aircrafts of that kind then. However, in the course of NATO bombing campaign in the Balkans the majority of the aircrafts were destroyed in the air or air facility bases.

source:
www.lenta.ru

 

[Wagner243]

THe sfrj jugoslavija only had about 14-16 mig-29's. But arent those migs upgraded to the S version. The S version was scrapped as a project by russia since the 90's.

 

[rjmaz1]

The Saab Gripen and Erieye combo would be a near perfect fit for their requirements.

The refurb gripens are available for quite a low price.

 

[Feanor]

The Saab Gripen and Erieye combo would be a near perfect fit for their requirements.

The refurb gripens are available for quite a low price.

I doubt they can afford to operate even a small dedicated AEW&C aircraft at this point in time. Refurbished Grippens may be a very good choice, but don't fit well with their existing aircraft types (i.e. the 5 modernized Fulcrums already flying) and the infrastructure which was all designed around Soviet-built planes. Political considerations also get in the way. However if more money is found, and a major military re-armament program is launched, that may become an option.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

I am not 100% sure, but I think army budget for 2008 is\was big as the budged for 2007 and 2006 together, and for 2009 is supposed to be even bigger.
I think gov. agree to keep the budged big as planed, despite economy crisis.
+ army planed to sell all needless, empty, half destroyed buildings which are in exclusive locations, and for which army paying huge amount of money. . .
Cepotine base is now finished, and bigger part of army costs went there, now army can put investments somewhere else. . .
I dont know precise numbers, dont take this post flighty because of that. . .
There are numbers, I am just to busy now to search for it, if you want I will
post them for few days, anyway this are all facts, which points that army will probably have money in the recent future for such expensive projects, as getting new jets (well, its obvious ) but no Gripens or Fs , first
because that will be still to expensive ( to buy, to maintain, to train pilots on, to fly ) , and second because of state policy, history, tradition (braca rusi ) and etc...
In the time when Serbia will probably announce tender notice, 2013 most probably, Russia will have much bigger role in the Serbian military than now,
because of many factors like: economic and political rise, stronger and
stronger Serb-Russian relation by every day, new projected Russian pipeline throughout Serbia, selling Serbian oil industry to Russian Gazprom, military strengthening of Russia, every day bigger and bigger political and also economic support from Russia, and most probably soon arriving of 200 btr-90s, and dozens of other modern Russian armored cars (like t-98 )
and many many other factors. . .
So, I will say there is around 75 % that Serbia will get some Russian jets, rather than U.S or E.U . . .
The point is which one ? Su-30s are great, but army have more experience
with Migs, my opinion is that army should buy more Mig-29s (modernized off course ) or if is anyhow possible several Mig-35s . . .
Now, we need here someone who really now everything about Migs, pilots maybe, to discuss which one and why ?
And also, what are you think about Mig-27 variants, or even Mig -31 var.

 

[Feanor]

In the time when Serbia will probably announce tender notice, 2013 most probably, Russia will have much bigger role in the Serbian military than now,
because of many factors like: economic and political rise, stronger and
stronger Serb-Russian relation by every day, new projected Russian pipeline throughout Serbia, selling Serbian oil industry to Russian Gazprom, military strengthening of Russia, every day bigger and bigger political and also economic support from Russia, and most probably soon arriving of 200 btr-90s, and dozens of other modern Russian armored cars (like t-98 )
and many many other factors. . .

200 BTR-90?! Do you have a source on that? I could believe a T-98 purchase, but 200 BTR-90? That's a hefty price tag.

So, I will say there is around 75 % that Serbia will get some Russian jets, rather than U.S or E.U . . .
The point is which one ? Su-30s are great, but army have more experience
with Migs, my opinion is that army should buy more Mig-29s (modernized off course ) or if is anyhow possible several Mig-35s . . .
Now, we need here someone who really now everything about Migs, pilots maybe, to discuss which one and why ?
And also, what are you think about Mig-27 variants, or even Mig -31 var.

The MiG-27 was iirc a ground-attack aircraft with variable wing geometry. Hopelessly outdated today. The MiG-31 is a high-altitude long range interceptor. Hardly something Serbia needs. The MiG-29SMT or MiG-35 are the only real candidates.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Yes, you are right about Mig-27... what was I thinking ?!
About Mig-31, I dunno . . .
About 200 btr-90s, army talking about it almost a year, in every interview of ministries and commanders, on the meetings, on tv, they are talking about getting massive and new equipment from Russia, at beginning, they said it will be done till end of 2008, but now they are saying most probably at the middle of the next year. . .
I read it also in the blic newspaper, few months ago
I found only one source, it is on Serban :
http://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Drustvo/t51490.sr.html
I really dont know, why there are no more on that subject, could be because
it is not 100 % sure, but what is sure that Serbia will get modern 8*8 APCs
in the next year, all this talking and interviews, cant be for nothing !

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Back to the topic :
Does anyone know, how much Mig-35s are built, I found different numbers, only I can say is around 10 !
How much more can Russia built in the next 5 years, I mean can it built enough
to have it for export ?

 

[Stranac]

You must be carefull now

best solution for Serbia is Su-30s

Hi,

I 've come to know from some source that BiH (Ex YU) is getting some F-16s blk 50/52. But infact Bosnians are looking at F/A-18 Hornets and Grippens..

S0; is it true guys ?..
In the future they can create huge problems for you !:vamp

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

Hi,

I 've come to know from some source that BiH (Ex YU) is getting some F-16s blk 50/52. But infact Bosnians are looking at F/A-18 Hornets and Grippens..

S0; is it true guys ?..
In the future they can create huge problems for you !:vamp

Welcome friend, where you heard that ?
I know that BiH decidedly decide to retire all of its aircraft's , and to keep maybe several heli.
All of its aircrafts, and think few heli. BiH will put on sale, and only potential buyer and parties is Serbia, also for about 80 tanks which BiH retires . . .

In the future they can create huge problems for you !:vamp

BiH is joining NATO, that is problem itself

 

[Feanor]

Back to the topic :
Does anyone know, how much Mig-35s are built, I found different numbers, only I can say is around 10 !
How much more can Russia built in the next 5 years, I mean can it built enough
to have it for export ?

0. Not a single serial produced MiG-35 has been built. One MiG-29M2 has been repainted with a big MiG-35 sign on it's side. However as far as I know none have been built. The aircraft is very much dependent on winning the Indian MMRCA contract, and potentially to be the renegotiated candidate for the Algerian deal. Otherwise it won't see a production run, esp. not for an order as small as several aircraft. Though I suppose they could retrofit some of the avionics, radar, OLS, etc. to older Fulcrum airframes that have already been produced, and sell that to the Serbians. However that wouldn't even mean a serial production run, more like a small batch.

EDIT: And by the way, it's an export only item, as the VVS has expressed no interest. So in terms of availability, if someone is willing to buy it, it will be available.

 

[Kosovo=Serbia]

0. Not a single serial produced MiG-35 has been built. One MiG-29M2 has been repainted with a big MiG-35 sign on it's side. However as far as I know none have been built. The aircraft is very much dependent on winning the Indian MMRCA contract, and potentially to be the renegotiated candidate for the Algerian deal. Otherwise it won't see a production run, esp. not for an order as small as several aircraft. Though I suppose they could retrofit some of the avionics, radar, OLS, etc. to older Fulcrum airframes that have already been produced, and sell that to the Serbians. However that wouldn't even mean a serial production run, more like a small batch.

EDIT: And by the way, it's an export only item, as the VVS has expressed no interest. So in terms of availability, if someone is willing to buy it, it will be available.

Ahh to bad, it looks nice, I thought production started. . .
Oh then, lets discuss Su-30
But still, you mean if Serbia decide to buy it for some 4-5 years, they will be able to built it in the relative short time ?