Oldest Navy
- Thread starter Chory
- Start date
You may need to define your question a little more closely; do you mean oldest continuous state-operated Navy?
Or the country that has the oldest record of having a Navy?
Or the longest serving unchanged Navy?
There are probably a few different "oldest" navies; The Greeks had some pretty sophisticated naval forces, but IIRC they were city-states that they served for rather than a complete nation, so don't know whether that counts. There are much older navies than that; whether the countries that had them still exist is the big question.
(Some countries may have had navies many years ago, and did away with them for an interim period.)
battlensign
New Member
Bang on!
This could be a really complicated question....
Continuous navies?
Manned by specialist naval personnel or seconded army personnel?
Where do dominions come into this? (as parts of empire do their records start from the empire's or their own?) etc....
Brett.
The Greeks, to be more precise, the Athenians, were probably the first people to recognize the importance of naval power to secure, protect borders and project power. That foresight would pay off in the Battle of Salamis.
Carthage was probably the first true naval power, or the first country to build an empire out of sea power.
The ancient Wu kingdom in China was probably the first to develop professional amphibious forces , meaning forces trained to fight in ships, don't get sea sick, and practice sea based assaults. In other words, marines.
The Song Dynasty was probably the first to have a standing navy.
Carthage was probably the first true naval power, or the first country to build an empire out of sea power.
The ancient Wu kingdom in China was probably the first to develop professional amphibious forces , meaning forces trained to fight in ships, don't get sea sick, and practice sea based assaults. In other words, marines.
The Song Dynasty was probably the first to have a standing navy.
... what about the Phoenicians, who were the ones that actually founded Carthage (and several dozen other colonies throughout the Mediterranean).
Athens didn't project power through its navy in the Battle of Salamis. Persia did, they just lost the battle.
So, anyway: I nominate Polynesia in general. Around 10,000 years since they first projected power across an ocean.
I'd be willing to believe the Royal Danish Navy might be the oldest continuos organization. Denmark was established about 980 and has operated naval forces since.
Wether or not the danish navy might be the oldest continuos navy organization, I think your a bit to early with the year 980.
On the danish site Danish Naval History you can read about the early years of the danish navy.
Polynesians? Before being Polynesians, they were Micronesians and Indonesians and before that, they were Malaysians. That's why they are basically called Malayo-Polynesian or just Austronesian as they extended themselves from the southern coasts of Asia to Indonesia and the Philippines, then to Micronesia, then to Melanesia and Polynesia, then west ward to Sri Lanka. The extent of their spread is as far as Madasgascar in one direction, and the Galapagos Islands in another.
At one point, the peak of their civilization was around somewhere in Ponape, in the lost water city of Nan Madol.
FutureTank
Banned Member
If oldest is in terms of historical navy, and navy is taken to mean a military employment of ships, then the earliest recorded is that of the Sea Peoples that raided Egypt.
Raided and traded. One of the earliest sea powers is the Minoan civilization, which is quite advanced for its time, having already mastered things like multistory house construction. Unfortunately this civilization was destroyed in the Santorini volcanic eruption, probably the basis for the Atlantis legend.
FutureTank
Banned Member
There is a suggestion that Minoans and Phoenicians were one and the same. The argument is that Minoans were sedentary with knowledge of sailing as far as fishing went, but after the cataclysm were forced to take to their boats and eventually this transformed their culture completely. The observation was made that their peculiar headgear really resembles the explosion of a volcano. It is also suggested that that was the origin of the later crowns because a crown reflects ultimate power over life or death, exactly what the Minoans experienced at the 'hands' of the Santorini eruption. All this is just speculation though
this is an interesting topic.
Well,I found record of Chinese naval battle happened as early as "Spring and Autumn Period" . They call it "Naval Division". In the older time they are only operate in rivers and lake (China has huge lakes and wide long rivers), most of the time they are responsible for mobility and logistic, althought they had a few decent war through the history.
In Ming Dynasty, one of the Emperor sent one of the world's earliest "Blue Water Nany".
Distence: to voyage to the south, and turn west head to the Africa continent ,rumor that to passed the Cape of Good Hope.
Poject power of world wide: He intervened in civil disturbance of nations along his voyage.
Fleet: is more reliable to be a fleet of 63 major ships.
BTW, Greco-Persian Wars happened in BC 492. And the first recorded Europeon naval battle was in BC1210.
Well,I found record of Chinese naval battle happened as early as "Spring and Autumn Period" . They call it "Naval Division". In the older time they are only operate in rivers and lake (China has huge lakes and wide long rivers), most of the time they are responsible for mobility and logistic, althought they had a few decent war through the history.
In Ming Dynasty, one of the Emperor sent one of the world's earliest "Blue Water Nany".
Distence: to voyage to the south, and turn west head to the Africa continent ,rumor that to passed the Cape of Good Hope.
Poject power of world wide: He intervened in civil disturbance of nations along his voyage.
Fleet: is more reliable to be a fleet of 63 major ships.
BTW, Greco-Persian Wars happened in BC 492. And the first recorded Europeon naval battle was in BC1210.
key word
Well, if the key word is "continious" state-operated Navy, I would argue that, after the Danish navy, it is the Bysantine Empire. They picked were the Western Romans left in 476AD, and lasted intil the fall of Constantinople in 1453. That's 977 years! It's also worth mentioning that the Kievan Rus had been operating lodyas-ships similar to Viking types on her rivers and adjacent seas since 862AD, and later, Novgorod seamen plied waters of Baltic & White Seas and explored the Arctic coast, even visiting Svalbard. So, if we count the Russian principalities after the breakup of the Kievan state, and all the away to the Russian Empire, USSR, and the present day Russian Federation, we get 1,135 years, older than the Danish navy by 97 years!
Well, if the key word is "continious" state-operated Navy, I would argue that, after the Danish navy, it is the Bysantine Empire. They picked were the Western Romans left in 476AD, and lasted intil the fall of Constantinople in 1453. That's 977 years! It's also worth mentioning that the Kievan Rus had been operating lodyas-ships similar to Viking types on her rivers and adjacent seas since 862AD, and later, Novgorod seamen plied waters of Baltic & White Seas and explored the Arctic coast, even visiting Svalbard. So, if we count the Russian principalities after the breakup of the Kievan state, and all the away to the Russian Empire, USSR, and the present day Russian Federation, we get 1,135 years, older than the Danish navy by 97 years!
The following are documented facts:
In 793 the Vikings (of Scandinavia) attacked the monastery at Lindisfarne located on an island off the coast by Northumberland in the northeasterly England – and that was the start of the 250-year long period of the “Viking-age”.
On August 10, in the year 1510, the Danish King Hans commissioned the first Danish Admiral (name: Henrik Krummedige). And that is the “Birth certificate” for the Royal Danish Navy – and the reason for the entire crew (about 3.500 plus civilians) to celebrate the Royal Danish Navy’s 500 years birthday on Tuesday the 10th of August 2010!
In 793 the Vikings (of Scandinavia) attacked the monastery at Lindisfarne located on an island off the coast by Northumberland in the northeasterly England – and that was the start of the 250-year long period of the “Viking-age”.
On August 10, in the year 1510, the Danish King Hans commissioned the first Danish Admiral (name: Henrik Krummedige). And that is the “Birth certificate” for the Royal Danish Navy – and the reason for the entire crew (about 3.500 plus civilians) to celebrate the Royal Danish Navy’s 500 years birthday on Tuesday the 10th of August 2010!
Despite that post being rather old...
What about Ramesses II reportedly defeating the Lukka, Sherden and Shekelesh raiders in a combined sea and land battle in his second year - that is 1278 BC?
The theory that Minoan was Semitic & closely related to Phoenician is strongly disputed. The late Professor Cyrus Gordon, for example, one of its chief proponents, retracted his published decipherments of a few words before his death.
Recent studies suggest Minoan may have been Indo-European (though not Hellenic), though this is disputed both in general (i.e. whether it was Indo-European at all) & in detail (which Indo-European group it may have belonged to).
Todjaeger
Potstirrer
If going by the average age of the vessel, then I believe the 'oldest navy' would be either the Philippine or Mexican navies respectively. Both have a number of WWII vessels on active duty.
Though I believe the US Navy has the single oldest ship in afloat still commissioned, the USS Constitution.
-Cheers
Afloat yes, but not oldest still in commission.
HMS VICTORY was commissioned in 1778. She's in permanent drydock, but is still a commissioned vessel as of then. But I suppose all the Brits have to do is flood the drydock and she'll be in water
Edit to add: Strange they don't actually do that. I'm sure some fresh water with additives wouldn't hurt her too much if the correct preparations were made.