Is the U.S. Expanding it's War into Pakistan?

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John Sansom

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Hi, Jecito....and I don't think Iran will accelerate its nuclear weapons program (if it has one) as a result of the attack "within" Syrian borders. I introduced the quotes because sometimes, even with GPS, in that kind of terrrain it really isn't all that easy to discern whose borders one might be within. That, of course, could just as well apply to the armchair pilot of a drone.

However, that being said, I can accept the Syrian claim (albeit grudgingly).

The Iranian position is becoming somewhat confused. Reportedly, Ahmadinejad is not at all well at the present and has managed to keep a very low profile. Whether or not this is an Ayatollah induced illness or the real thing, one can only speculate. The guy does work really hard and tends rto present a picture of nervous stress, no matter how much he smiles. How this may be affecting Iranian policy is anybody's guess. Anyway, the bottom-line decision maker for Iran is somebody else, right?
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Can we all stick to topic which is related to Pakistan ?

Having said that, I condemn the US of A for launching terrorist strikes inside Pakistan which are supposed to be launched only by Pakistani forces and if USA is really sincere then she should provide Pakistan with better intelligence and better weopons to outfight these extremists.

I as a moderate Pakistani wants these extremists eliminated but only in an action taken by Pakistani government and not by US of A launching terrorist strikes inside a sovereign country which mind you is against the charter of UN.
 

John Sansom

New Member
That's an affirmative, Aliph. I was simply responding to a thought put forward by Jecito.

More to the point then, the US "intrusions" into Pakistan territory are a symptomatic response to people like Baitullah Massoud, whose Taliban "army" has already delivered at least one resounding defeat to Pakistan forces and who is alleged to have been a key player in the Taliban's accession to what some say is "administrative" authority in Peshawar.

The BBC has termed Pakistan forces in the conflict area as willing but reliant on out-dated tactics against a very considerable number of highly motivated and religiously driven irregulars.

I should also add that Massoud is also well known for his very considerable part in breaking the non-aggression pact with Pakistan and his penchant for beheadings, hangings, and horrific tortures. In terms of commitment, he is most decidedly the Taliban poster boy.

I'm sure Islamabad would rather he settle down to a quite life of farming or commerce. Instead, he and his followers present a continuing and effective cross-border threat to Afghanistan and ISAF--and, in the longer term to Pakistan itself. What's the practical answer?
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
It is requested everyone stays on the topic. Anyone who wants to discuss Syria can open up a separate thread on it.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Problem is that US of A is not really interested in solving this mess and wants this status quo to remain at the current level so that she can stay in Afghanistan and have influence over the russian and breakaway republics' route to warm waters. Example being US of A engaging in reckless actions which are counter productive in solving this mess.

Practical solution is simple : Provide Pakistan with full support (even if it has be on the level of support provided to Isreal) to take on these extremists.

but then again, US of A has other intentions and solving of this mess isnt one of them.

and oh yes, US of A needs to refrain from launching terrorist strikes inside a soverign country which are against the charter of UN. Headoffice of which is nowhere else but in US of A itself. :rolleyes:
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Another Terrorist strike by US of A

Just when some talebans were surrendering weopons and was to be a good PR example to convince others to lay down arms as well, US of A launches a terrorist strike to recreate the instability and reignite the anger and hatred and revive tensions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7702679.stm

US of A has only one goal: Keep the tensions alive and stay in Afghanistan and keep the puppet NATO countries' forces with her to justify the world support.
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Crucial battle on Pakistan's frontline

By Barbara Plett
BBC News, Bajaur



A tank fires at militant movement detected at the edge of the town of Loi Sam


Entering the combat zone, we drive past mile after mile of flattened buildings, crops and trees, razed to prevent ambushes.

Even still, soldiers are on high alert, watchful for possible attacks.

They race down the road at top speed, firing occasional rounds from the guns mounted on the backs of their vehicles. Cobra attack helicopters circle overhead.

This is the tribal area of Bajaur near the Afghan border, or rather a small part of it.

The Pakistan army has wrested control of a 38km (24-mile) region from the Taleban, and it has given us rare access to the frontline.

We arrive in the town of Loi Sam, now in ruins. Militants here were targeted by the air force and artillery, followed by a ground offensive that lasted five days.

Civilians fled long ago - hundreds of thousands have been displaced by the fighting.

Key crossroads

A tank guards one of the approaches to the town, firing whenever there is movement in the distance.


Already a bulldozer has begun clearing away the blasted shells of buildings.

"You have to either occupy or remove the structures," says one soldier, "otherwise the militants will return to them once we've left."

For the army, this is a crucial victory: Loi Sam lies at a key crossroads between Afghanistan and Pakistan. From here local and Afghan insurgents could launch attacks in both countries.

"The militant activities from this tribal agency were radiating in different directions, towards Afghanistan, the rest of the border region and [Pakistan's] settled areas," says army spokesman Maj Gen Athar Abbas.

"Now we have this area under control, it will affect militant activities elsewhere, and we'll capitalise on that."

"The worst is over," agrees Maj Gen Tariq Khan, who is in charge of the offensive. "I think we have turned the corner."

Guerrilla warfare

The battle has been slow and deliberate. It took six weeks for the army to secure the road from the headquarters of the local security forces, the paramilitary Frontier Corps (FC), to Loi Sam, a distance of 13km.

Troops fought compound to compound in a terrain ideal for guerrilla warfare.


Maj Kamal says his men blocked 20 or 30 underground passageways
"There are road bends, there are depressions, there are houses located inside the depressions, trenches prepared, caves, tunnels, everything prepared," says Col Javed Baloch, commander of one of the posts along the road, "so it was difficult to find them, to spot them, and then take the area."

The Taleban has made extensive use of bunkers and tunnels which connected different compounds.

One commanding officer, Maj Kamal, took me 5m underground for a tour of the network.

He says his men blocked 20 or 30 passageways, including one that stretched 100m to a stream.

Many in Bajaur trace the roots of the uprising to a suspected US missile strike on an Islamic seminary, or madrassa, in November 2006, which killed around 80 people.

That radicalised local Islamists, they say, who were reinforced by militants from other Pakistani tribal areas. There was also an influx of fighters from Afghanistan.


Until and unless Afghanistan is made stable, you can do a million development activities in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, and there will be no result

Villagers take on Taleban

The battle for Bajaur was triggered when the FC tried to re-establish a check post in Loi Sam in early August. Fierce resistance led to the siege of the FC base before the army was called in.

Like other army officers, Maj Gen Tariq Khan criticises unilateral US air strikes on suspected insurgent targets as deeply counter productive.

But, he says, during the Bajaur operation there has been improved intelligence sharing and co-ordination with coalition forces, which has reduced cross-border militant infiltration from Afghanistan. "We've seen practical on-ground adjustments in relevance to our operations," he says.

"I've got a very positive response and I feel we've set up some system in which we're in some kind of regular touch, and I think that's the way to go."

Hearts and minds

Now that the fighting has subsided, attention is turning to reconstruction and development: acknowledgement that winning hearts and minds in the impoverished tribal region along the border is essential to fighting the insurgency.

But that won't be enough, says Shafir Ullah, the government representative in Bajaur who deals with tribal elders.

"The reasons [for the insurgency] are poverty, backwardness and others, but the real problem is linked with Afghanistan," he says.

"Until and unless Afghanistan is made stable, you can do a million development activities in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas, and there will be no result."

The Taleban have been pushed back - the army claims it has killed 1,500 - but they haven't been defeated.

Two soldiers were killed by rocket fire in Loi Sam shortly after we left the town, bringing the army's death toll to 75. Nearly 100 civilians have also died, says Shafir Ullah.

One hillside post is so exposed to Taleban fire that the soldiers have dug in for protection.

Forty men can fit in the massive bunker at any one time, a few are saying their prayers and reciting the Koran in a makeshift underground mosque when we visit.

This is not a popular war in Pakistan: some have criticised the military for killing fellow Muslims.

Others accuse it of fighting "America's War". But the army insists it is fighting to defend Pakistan, not just responding to US pressure for action against the Taleban.

Even as dusk falls artillery guns continue to pound militant positions. The war in Afghanistan has spilled over into Pakistan.

This is the other, rarely seen, side of the battle against the Taleban.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7701336.stm
 

OPSSG

Super Moderator
Staff member
US of A... strike to recreate the instability and reignite the anger and hatred and revive tensions...

US of A has only one goal: Keep the tensions alive and stay in Afghanistan and keep the puppet NATO countries' forces with her to justify the world support.
Ahmed, I am sad about the lost of lives and I agree that it may reignite anger and create instability in Pakistan.

IMHO, the US (in particular the CIA, during President Regan's time onwards), had implemented a number of misguided policies. I think that the US will need to roll up their sleeves, to help Pakistan instead of just blaming Pakistan. They must recognize that Pakistan is subject to acts of terrorism by the Taliban or at least supporters and allies of the Taliban.

You are a nationalist. There is nothing wrong with loving your country. It is another thing to see the world through such a misguided worldview. As a 3rd party (from a non-US and non-NATO country) I do not believe that you can blame the US for all of the troubles in Pakistan. If you are going to take this attitude that "the US wants to keep tensions alive and stay in Afghanistan" - then you cannot call yourself a moderate.

The US cannot solve the problem of the Taliban in Pakistan. The US also cannot reduce the support the Taliban gets in the tribal areas by itself. The US must work with the armed forces of Pakistan to solve the problem together.
 
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Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Ahmed, I sad about the lost of lives and I agree that it may reignite anger and create instability in Pakistan.

IMHO, the US (in particular the CIA, during President Regan's time onwards), had implemented a number of misguided policies. I think that the US will need to roll up their sleeves, to help Pakistan instead of just blaming Pakistan. They must recognize that Pakistan is subject to acts of terrorism by the Taliban or at least supporters and allies of the Taliban.

The US cannot solve the problem of the Taliban in Pakistan. The US also cannot reduce the support the Taliban gets in the tribal areas by itself. The US must work with the armed forces of Pakistan to solve the problem together.
BINGO !!

I have been saying exactly the same thing over and over again.

but when US of A engages in reckless actions then moderate Pakistanis like me starts to wonder a lot of other things. You can imagine what the conservative Pakistanis will think ?

I among hundreds of million Pakistanis support action against these extremists but we are of opinion that it should be taken only by Pakistan armed forces and US of A should provide full support to Pakistan of everykind to eliminate the extremism.
 

waraich

Banned Member
BINGO !!

I have been saying exactly the same thing over and over again.

but when US of A engages in reckless actions then moderate Pakistanis like me starts to wonder a lot of other things. You can imagine what the conservative Pakistanis will think ?

I among hundreds of million Pakistanis support action against these extremists but we are of opinion that it should be taken only by Pakistan armed forces and US of A should provide full support to Pakistan of everykind to eliminate the extremism.
Sorry to say ! if US and NATO cant take control of few thausand talaban in seven years,how it is possible Pakistan army could control whole FATA which is strong hold of talaban from last 38 years.

There is only one way out,which is to bring these talaban on main stream of afghan politics .
 

Aliph Ahmed

Banned Member
Sorry to say ! if US and NATO cant take control of few thausand talaban in seven years,how it is possible Pakistan army could control whole FATA which is strong hold of talaban from last 38 years.
.
Did you just call them (US of A and NATO) stupid for not knowing that or too smart to persue other intentions? :p:
 

waraich

Banned Member
Did you just call them (US of A and NATO) stupid for not knowing that or too smart to persue other intentions? :p:
LOL ....

Top and middle brass of Pak Army is still Musharaf minded or islamist.You know very well China dont want strong hold of US in this region.China is trusthworthy friend of pakistan.Generally pakistanies dont like US presence in region for longer period and recent US-INDIAN nuk deals is also a question mark and continues innocent killing in FATA by US air striks increasing the anti american sentiments.


I hope above senario will help you to understand ground realities much better.
 
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stigmata

New Member
I think a fundamental requirement to get the grassrot support is to allow opium harvesting, but be directly transferred to authorised medics.
This is to keep'em happy about income while at the same time not contribute to illegal drug biz.
 

BPacifist

New Member
article posted by AA: "Many in Bajaur trace the roots of the uprising to a suspected US missile strike on an Islamic seminary, or madrassa, in November 2006, which killed around 80 people."

Yes that was when the pseudo-Taliban insurgency began in Taliban.

The first ever suicide attack in Pakistan's history happened in retaliation of this UAV-attack. It was delibrated in a Jirga and the tribes overtly said they'd bomb-attack the PA and did.

From that fateful day on the Pukhtun tribes from some tribal areas began fighting the PA and aiding the Taliban elements or associating their own exploits with the Taliban banner.

I still remember that cold evening in 2006 when I sat sipping coffee with a friend from Bajaur and the news flash came up; and the reaction of the person was to call the PakArmy occupiers, sold-outs and withing to obliterate them. It was scary. Interestingly, recently he's been vacationing in his native village and told someone about 'Indian fighters/aid' he's heard about from his townsfolk. What do you make of that?
 

SABRE

Super Moderator
Verified Defense Pro
All discussion on War on Terror (WoT) will be discussed here from now on: http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8380

No new threads allowed without the permission of mods or admin.
 
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