recce.k1
Well-Known Member
Those Absalon’s sure look the part, no need to rattle off why, just read the details here etc. The fact that it also has permanent accommodation for up to 70 additional personnel would be a bonus for NZ’s unique needs eg military/troops or civilian/govt agency staff etc. As well as the mine laying capability, useful for local and Pacific defence etc.
(BTW here’s another old article confirming Mr C’s suggestion that Labour in Sept 1999 (previous change of Govt/election) were sending out signals to the electorate that they could be considering the Danish vessels if elected and here’s another old article from July 1999 - again pre-last change of Govt/election suggesting the RNZN were wanting to buy 2 second hand Frigates during National’s last days to replace the old Leanders and maintain the 4 Frigate Navy. So anything is/was possible but it’s interesting how things changed for the worse once the Govt did change in 1999)!
IMO the ideal Navy would be at least 3 Frigates (4 would be ideal – that would allow for up to 2 to be deployed at any one time with one in refit and one working up/training etc) and at least 3 OPV’s for EEZ patrolling etc (although ideally up to say 5-6 to allow for 2-3 to be deployed around NZ, and/or the Pacific and/or the Southern Ocean or perhaps working with the RAN off the NT coast etc, at any one time with 2-3 in refit/training/resting or even reserve etc).
It would be nice if a Defence White Paper suggested increasing the Frigate/OPV numbers, perhaps with a second hand Frigate at least (if one can be found) in the interim and new build OPV’s for EEZ patrols as well. OR instead of a 3rd/4th Frigate in the interim, how about another couple or so souped up Tenix/BAE OPV’s in the interim* (i.e. better sensors and air-sea surveillance radars, sonar and some torps for ASW and low threat ASuW situations and better self-protection systems - no need for ESSM or Harpoon etc) AS well as the dumbed down EEZ OPV's?
I say in the interim because NZ needs to get on board early with the RAN ANZAC replacement programme. And that’s assuming Australia wants NZ on board so much after copping out of buying 4 ANZAC’s despite the major benefits provided to NZ companies for being involved in the entire project (that was no doubt a political sweetner, so will Australia be so generous next time)?
So will the ANZAC replacements be bigger to allow for growth? Will it be a traditional war fighting design, or something slightly flexible and somewhat multi-purpose like the Absalon or will it be based on the Hobart AWD thus achieving economies in terms of fit-out and saving on training costs etc?
So how could NZ curry favour? How about signing upfront for 4 Frigates this time (instead of 2 upfront and 2 “later” as in relation to the ANZAC’s)? What 4 Frigates, splutter those that believe that NZ should be engaging more in peacekeeping or those peaceniks etc???
Yes 4 because a change of Govt (or even the Labour Govt if re-elected) - if both parties were to be honest about NZ’s economic future (read the depressing figures here – today 10 years of deficits are forecast for the first time in umpteen years), rather than play out their teenage activist fantasies again later in life, they should be doing all they can to grow NZ’s economy (for everyone’s benefit – it’s not as if money grows on trees to pay for various social projects etc) and one decent part would be to get in bed with Australia and get NZ industry involved with the ANZAC Frigate replacement, potentially earning industries hundreds of millions again if not more, that’s extra tax intake for the Govt and that’s growing NZ’s skillbase, further export potential and employed workforce also spending their wages in the wider community etc. (The fact that NZ plays no formal part in the RAN AWD and LHD projects is understandable but is also scandalous that the NZ Govt should simply pretend that these projects don’t exist for the sake of not upsetting the applecart with their inward looking defence policy etc. Another great opportunity lost on the heals of the ANZAC successes, the PM, Defmin and Economic Development ministers should be ashamed of their inability to put NZ’s economic interests at the fore over all this, especially after awarding Project Protector in its entirety to Tenix (although at least the MRV should have been awarded to either the Singapore or the competing Dutch design IMO)), it should have been a foot in the door but no.
* Rant over, now also depending on what type of ANZAC replacement vessel is chosen, perhaps if it weren’t the AWD design, i.e. something slightly smaller, but bigger than the ANZAC, we know thru the grapevine that the Tenix OPV’s may have a shortened service life due to weight/stress issues, if so, perhaps for the OPV's in the late 2010’s or into the 2020’s, which coincides with the ANZAC replacements being built and commissioned in the early 2020’s, perhaps it just might be possible to replace the Tenix OPV’s with the same type of vessel, thus meaning that NZ could potentially be buying more than 4 hulls – who knows maybe 6 or 7 or 8 etc depending on whether the RNZN is to grow over the next decade or so if the Govt perceives there is a need etc. Now the OPV replacement variant wouldn’t need Harpoon or Standard etc, again just reduced sensors, similar damage and fire control, self defence perhaps including ESSM but otherwise CIWS, torps and either the same calibre gun or a down sized calibre (in other words “fitted for but not with”, surely that would realise some hefty savings)? As others such as Sea Toby like to point out, for NZ’s regional and strategic needs, something Frigate sized is deemed to be the optimum size in terms of range, dealing with varying sea states, has capacity inside to embark additional personnel be that Govt, civilian or special forces etc. Food for thought perhaps???
(BTW here’s another old article confirming Mr C’s suggestion that Labour in Sept 1999 (previous change of Govt/election) were sending out signals to the electorate that they could be considering the Danish vessels if elected and here’s another old article from July 1999 - again pre-last change of Govt/election suggesting the RNZN were wanting to buy 2 second hand Frigates during National’s last days to replace the old Leanders and maintain the 4 Frigate Navy. So anything is/was possible but it’s interesting how things changed for the worse once the Govt did change in 1999)!
IMO the ideal Navy would be at least 3 Frigates (4 would be ideal – that would allow for up to 2 to be deployed at any one time with one in refit and one working up/training etc) and at least 3 OPV’s for EEZ patrolling etc (although ideally up to say 5-6 to allow for 2-3 to be deployed around NZ, and/or the Pacific and/or the Southern Ocean or perhaps working with the RAN off the NT coast etc, at any one time with 2-3 in refit/training/resting or even reserve etc).
It would be nice if a Defence White Paper suggested increasing the Frigate/OPV numbers, perhaps with a second hand Frigate at least (if one can be found) in the interim and new build OPV’s for EEZ patrols as well. OR instead of a 3rd/4th Frigate in the interim, how about another couple or so souped up Tenix/BAE OPV’s in the interim* (i.e. better sensors and air-sea surveillance radars, sonar and some torps for ASW and low threat ASuW situations and better self-protection systems - no need for ESSM or Harpoon etc) AS well as the dumbed down EEZ OPV's?
I say in the interim because NZ needs to get on board early with the RAN ANZAC replacement programme. And that’s assuming Australia wants NZ on board so much after copping out of buying 4 ANZAC’s despite the major benefits provided to NZ companies for being involved in the entire project (that was no doubt a political sweetner, so will Australia be so generous next time)?
So will the ANZAC replacements be bigger to allow for growth? Will it be a traditional war fighting design, or something slightly flexible and somewhat multi-purpose like the Absalon or will it be based on the Hobart AWD thus achieving economies in terms of fit-out and saving on training costs etc?
So how could NZ curry favour? How about signing upfront for 4 Frigates this time (instead of 2 upfront and 2 “later” as in relation to the ANZAC’s)? What 4 Frigates, splutter those that believe that NZ should be engaging more in peacekeeping or those peaceniks etc???
Yes 4 because a change of Govt (or even the Labour Govt if re-elected) - if both parties were to be honest about NZ’s economic future (read the depressing figures here – today 10 years of deficits are forecast for the first time in umpteen years), rather than play out their teenage activist fantasies again later in life, they should be doing all they can to grow NZ’s economy (for everyone’s benefit – it’s not as if money grows on trees to pay for various social projects etc) and one decent part would be to get in bed with Australia and get NZ industry involved with the ANZAC Frigate replacement, potentially earning industries hundreds of millions again if not more, that’s extra tax intake for the Govt and that’s growing NZ’s skillbase, further export potential and employed workforce also spending their wages in the wider community etc. (The fact that NZ plays no formal part in the RAN AWD and LHD projects is understandable but is also scandalous that the NZ Govt should simply pretend that these projects don’t exist for the sake of not upsetting the applecart with their inward looking defence policy etc. Another great opportunity lost on the heals of the ANZAC successes, the PM, Defmin and Economic Development ministers should be ashamed of their inability to put NZ’s economic interests at the fore over all this, especially after awarding Project Protector in its entirety to Tenix (although at least the MRV should have been awarded to either the Singapore or the competing Dutch design IMO)), it should have been a foot in the door but no.
* Rant over, now also depending on what type of ANZAC replacement vessel is chosen, perhaps if it weren’t the AWD design, i.e. something slightly smaller, but bigger than the ANZAC, we know thru the grapevine that the Tenix OPV’s may have a shortened service life due to weight/stress issues, if so, perhaps for the OPV's in the late 2010’s or into the 2020’s, which coincides with the ANZAC replacements being built and commissioned in the early 2020’s, perhaps it just might be possible to replace the Tenix OPV’s with the same type of vessel, thus meaning that NZ could potentially be buying more than 4 hulls – who knows maybe 6 or 7 or 8 etc depending on whether the RNZN is to grow over the next decade or so if the Govt perceives there is a need etc. Now the OPV replacement variant wouldn’t need Harpoon or Standard etc, again just reduced sensors, similar damage and fire control, self defence perhaps including ESSM but otherwise CIWS, torps and either the same calibre gun or a down sized calibre (in other words “fitted for but not with”, surely that would realise some hefty savings)? As others such as Sea Toby like to point out, for NZ’s regional and strategic needs, something Frigate sized is deemed to be the optimum size in terms of range, dealing with varying sea states, has capacity inside to embark additional personnel be that Govt, civilian or special forces etc. Food for thought perhaps???
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