Royal New Zealand Navy Discussions and Updates

[mattyem]

im looking forward to some fun filled nights of the junior rates fleet club on the mana's return!!!!!

 

[recce.k1]

Te Kaha news

Looks as though Frigate Te Kaha has escaped the confines of Devonport and its surrounds (where she has mostly been over the last year) and is now working up to a couple of exercises this year.


Frigate arrives with a bang
The Dominion Post | Thursday, 21 August 2008
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4663314a23918.html

A fusillade celebrating navy frigate HMNZS Te Kaha's arrival in Wellington was specially significant for its captain Matt Williams.

Yesterday's 21-gun salute to Governor-General Anand Satyanand was also a red-letter day for Commander Williams - it was the first time he had had the honour of sitting in the captain's chair while coming into his "home" port.

Commander Williams, born in Levin and an old boy of St Patrick's College Silverstream, became Te Kaha's commanding officer in January.

The ship will be in port till Monday and will be open to the public from 10am-4pm on Saturday and Sunday.

He says its 171 officers and crew are looking forward to a few days in Wellington but some will be busy looking after ship visitors. Tonight Te Kaha will be a dinner venue, involving Defence Minister Phil Goff and his Australian counterpart Joel Fitzgibbon, after annual defence talks.

The ship would be involved in two exercises soon - an international proliferation security exercise off Auckland next month and then an annual five-power exercise in Singapore.

Te Kaha, first of the navy's two Anzac class frigates, was commissioned in 1997. It should spend much of next year in dock for its first big upgrade.

Its engines and air conditioning systems will be replaced before a $500 million upgrade of radar and weapons systems on both frigates required by the end of the decade.

 

[MrConservative]

I'm pretty pleased the old girl is getting its upgrade. Finally good news for the Navy. The ship looked in good nick when I visited it last January. This is a far far better $500 million spend up than the Protector Fleet. Though with the Govt buying the Railways and Interislander recently, I suppose they could put the car ferry to good use running freight and camper vans across the cook strait during the summer when it is not too rough.

 

[dave_kiwi]

RNZN / RNZAF Live Firing - AGM 65 Maverick

For something slightly more positive:

Quote: The New Zealand Navy and Air Force successfully test-fired two air-to-surface missiles in a joint exercise on Friday.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10530999

Video link here:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multimedia/video.cfm?c_id=1&gal_objectid=10530999&gallery_id=102347

Cannot be 100% sure, but the P3-K taking part may have also been feeding info back to the Te Kaha

 

[recce.k1]

Re: RNZN / RNZAF Live Firing - AGM 65 Maverick

That NZ Herald article quotes the Maritime Component Commander saying "The activity involved a 'start to finish' validation of current Royal New Zealand Navy and Royal New Zealand Air Force standing operating procedures, orders and instructions, and to verify the Seasprite as a firing platform for the Maverick missile." And also "Exercises like today's allow air and ground crews to practice preparation, loading and firing procedures - as well as the handling of live forward firing ordnance on board our ships".

Well done chaps! Good to see a 100% successful firing and that everything went to plan.

TVNZ also featured a shorter but higher quality clip with brief on board camera views:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/2061001?bandwidth=128k

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Also our other Frigate Te Mana has returned back to Devonport from the Gulf deployment today. NZ Herald article http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10530986

TV3 also ran a news report but get the flippin' reporter trying to make out that the ship's Commander was at loggerheads with Defence Chiefs and the recent annual defence report! The good Commander was only talking about the success of his ships mission! Good grief senior reporter Bob McNeill, report the facts instead of inventing mischief!
http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/National/tabid/309/articleID/70339/Default.aspx#video

 

[recce.k1]

Though with the Govt buying the Railways and Interislander recently, I suppose they could put the car ferry to good use running freight and camper vans across the cook strait during the summer when it is not too rough.

When you say "put the car ferry to good use", are you actually referring to the MRV, Canterbury???

Remember back in the 1970's & 80's when the NZ Rail Cook Straight Ferry's used to go on strike, the Govt used to use the air force C130's and Andovers to fly passengers and cars over Cook Straight? You might be onto something there Mr C - nowadays as we don't have any Andovers anymore and the C130's are pretty stretched with operations and upgrades, maybe the Govt will consider using the Canterbury if there are any major strikes!!??

 

[KH-12]

Clearly part of a masterplan as evidenced by the Government's purchase of the Railways, a dual purpose Defence Force and Freight Network (why do you think the 757's were modified

Any more word on the OPV's, heard some talk re: having a severely reduced service life (10years ?) and all the IPV's seemed to be tied up at Whangarei.

 

[recce.k1]

Another media "beat-up"?

...after all, it's not like the RNZN is the only Navy that has operated in the Gulf and experienced these problems! Anyway, shouldn't the ANZAC's have some sort of wash down system in the event the ship is affected by nuclear fallout?

Warship docks after Gulf duties
MICHAEL FIELD on HMNZS Te Mana - The Dominion Post | Monday, 08 September 2008

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4684360a6479.html

Frontline warship Te Mana has suffered potentially life-shortening damage after five months sailing in the sandstorm-swept Arabian Gulf.

Its Seasprite helicopter was also sandblasted, with avionics, blades and engines showing signs of damage. The nearly $700 million Anzac frigate returned to Devonport yesterday after five months in the Gulf as part of Enduring Freedom, a multinational operation to defeat the Taleban in Afghanistan.

Te Mana, which was launched in 1997, now needed to go into scheduled maintenance, Commander Blair Gerritsen told The Dominion Post.

"We prepared as best we could by improving all the air-conditioning performance on board. At the end of the day, you've got to operate there and put up with the conditions."

Crew were astonished at how sand infiltrated much of the ship and the helicopter. Its main radar bearings have heavy sand buildup, limiting the radar's range, and the ship's weapon systems must now be cleaned.

It did not rain while they were in the Gulf and crew had fought a running battle to keep sand out. Their first real chance was on the way home, when they ran into monsoon rains going into Mumbai, India.

When the ship was washed, the runoff looked like mud. Even the helicopter engines produced "sewage-looking water".

The extent of the problem is unlikely to be known till engineers have investigated the interior, but experts on board say the ship's operational life may have been shortened.

Navy chief Admiral David Ledson flew to the ship near Waitangi to give each member of the company a general service medal and the Afghanistan medal in recognition of their role in Enduring Freedom.

"Welcome home and enjoy tomorrow when you embrace family and friends and those you love. We can all take a great deal of pride in a job well done."

The ship sailed into Devonport yesterday to a Father's Day welcome. First on board for a tearful hug from dad were Commander Gerritsen's children Liam, 5, and Ingrid, 7. They ran up to the flightdeck, where Commander Gerritsen hugged them for the first time in five months.

"I've been looking forward to this," he said.

On the dock a crowd of about 400 had turned up to welcome friends and family home.

 

[alexsa]

...after all, it's not like the RNZN is the only Navy that has operated in the Gulf and experienced these problems! Anyway, shouldn't the ANZAC's have some sort of wash down system in the event the ship is affected by nuclear fallout?

Apart from the fact that operating effectively with the wash down system running on a prolonged basis would be quite difficult I would suggest that pumping salt water over the vessel for such periods would have an even greater effect on structure and equipment than the sand.

An offshore vessel operator had a OSV attending a rig fire provding structural cooling the rig while another OSV provided cooling to the first vessel. The work went on for week after which the OSV was a write off due to the damage done by water ingress into systems, equipment and structure. It was just not worth trying to put it all right.

 

[recce.k1]

Thanks for the clarifications, (appreciate your regular insights on ship/system/design matters).

Wondered whether an occassional wash down (eg weekly/fortnightly for several minutes etc) would have been useful, however the experts on the ship no doubt would have considered this, if it were viable etc.

So got that, a salt water wash down is something to be done in extreme circumstances eg nuclear fallout.

 

[ThePuss]

When I went to the gulf on Arunta we washed down the decks with fire hoses regularly which are of course saltwater (nothing the decks are not exposed to daily anway). However for weapons systems, radars, comms gear, the helicopter and so on we strictly used fresh water. Anzacs have quite a good water generating capability however it's output was limited due to being in warm waters.

To greatly help stop sand ingress into the ship we cable tied thick filter material to the outside of the air vent intakes. If you changed them regularly this simple system works well.

 

[Aussie Digger]

...after all, it's not like the RNZN is the only Navy that has operated in the Gulf and experienced these problems! Anyway, shouldn't the ANZAC's have some sort of wash down system in the event the ship is affected by nuclear fallout?

Thank goodness you've got 2 of them... nfloorl:

 

[KH-12]

Thank goodness you've got 2 of them... nfloorl:

Steady On :nono

 

[recce.k1]

Thank goodness you've got 2 of them... nfloorl:

Yep, maybe only two but both currently fully crewed - one back from a deployment and the other off to participate in exercises. Look's like RNZN naval combat force 100% operational (best we give the Te Mana's crew a wee rest though eh)

Now how's the Collins crewing situation going and those FFG's which aren't operational! Looks like RAN naval combat force 66% operational (12/18) :dance

When's the next All Blacks v Wallabies match?

 

[MrConservative]

When you say "put the car ferry to good use", are you actually referring to the MRV, Canterbury???

Remember back in the 1970's & 80's when the NZ Rail Cook Straight Ferry's used to go on strike, the Govt used to use the air force C130's and Andovers to fly passengers and cars over Cook Straight? You might be onto something there Mr C - nowadays as we don't have any Andovers anymore and the C130's are pretty stretched with operations and upgrades, maybe the Govt will consider using the Canterbury if there are any major strikes!!??

Yes, I am making that inference. I note that the language used around the Ministry of Defence is that it is not an MRV any more. Its a Sealift ship. They (if they are still around in 2 months) will be thinking of anything to make it look useful.

PS: What is the difference between the Canterbury and the Charles Upham?
About a $150 million and 150 crates of oranges.

Think about it.

 

[greenie]

Clearly part of a masterplan as evidenced by the Government's purchase of the Railways, a dual purpose Defence Force and Freight Network (why do you think the 757's were modified

Any more word on the OPV's, heard some talk re: having a severely reduced service life (10years ?) and all the IPV's seemed to be tied up at Whangarei.

Giday people
Ive also heard on the grapevine that the OPVs have major vibration problems, shafts??

As for the IPVs , a little birdie told me that they had failed a Lloyds inspection.
But then birds can be wrong and grapes bad.

 

[Stuart Mackey]

Giday people
Ive also heard on the grapevine that the OPVs have major vibration problems, shafts??

As for the IPVs , a little birdie told me that they had failed a Lloyds inspection.
But then birds can be wrong and grapes bad.

The birds are right and the grapes are nice and ripe. I have good sources on this.

 

[battlensign]

Yep, maybe only two but both currently fully crewed - one back from a deployment and the other off to participate in exercises. Look's like RNZN naval combat force 100% operational (best we give the Te Mana's crew a wee rest though eh)

Now how's the Collins crewing situation going and those FFG's which aren't operational! Looks like RAN naval combat force 66% operational (12/18) :dance

When's the next All Blacks v Wallabies match?

Umm....no. Got to actually have them before you can talk about crewing them. It might be tight at the moment, but in a war they would be crewed quick-smart. That might take a month or 3 (more realistically) but at least it could be done.

Brett.

BTW, love the Yacht Club you have going on over there with the RNZN - be nice if you had a Navy thought......

 

[recce.k1]

Umm....no. Got to actually have them before you can talk about crewing them. It might be tight at the moment, but in a war they would be crewed quick-smart. That might take a month or 3 (more realistically) but at least it could be done.

Brett.

BTW, love the Yacht Club you have going on over there with the RNZN - be nice if you had a Navy thought......

Teehee, I could be naughty and say maybe you chaps perhaps don't need so many ships then! And who built our latest (unseaworthy) "yachts"?

But seriously, I fully agree with your sentiments. People (make that the Media) tend to say "ohh there's only enough crew to man 3 Collins subs - disaster, disaster etc", but I have always thought, and you have said it, if push came to shove and for some reason Australia (and others) had to go onto a war footing, Australia would have hundreds/thousands of ex-servicemen and women, reservists etc, that would either volunteer to rejoin or would be "asked" to. You would have no problems filling up your subs, ships, aircraft, army etc. If anything you (and we etc) would have more personnel than available assets to man and support ! So all I can say is, don't believe the (media) hype!

Edit: forgot to acknowledge your other point. Yes, agree, NZ reducing to 2 Frigates, not a smart move (especially in the long run) as it means they get worn out quicker. There was some recent debate in NZ a few weeks ago on the economy and debt whereby I think National (and/or some commentators) acknowledged that the then National Govt in the late 90's probably did the wrong thing by cutting govt expenditure during the Asian financial crisis as growth (and gdp) retracted. Whilst there was no discussion of defence projects at the time, I suppose the cutbacks affected the 3rd Frigate purchase (and then Labour canned it finally when they came to power in favour of the Project Protector). (I'm sure others can correct me if I'm wrong). If only eh, things could have easily turned out differently for the RNZN, but thanks to certain twists in time etc.

 

[battlensign]

Teehee, I could be naughty and say maybe you chaps perhaps don't need so many ships then! And who built our latest (unseaworthy) "yachts"?

But seriously, I fully agree with your sentiments. People (make that the Media) tend to say "ohh there's only enough crew to man 3 Collins subs - disaster, disaster etc", but I have always thought, and you have said it, if push came to shove and for some reason Australia (and others) had to go onto a war footing, Australia would have hundreds/thousands of ex-servicemen and women, reservists etc, that would either volunteer to rejoin or would be "asked" to. You would have no problems filling up your subs, ships, aircraft, army etc. If anything you (and we etc) would have more personnel than available assets to man and support ! So all I can say is, don't believe the (media) hype!

Edit: forgot to acknowledge your other point. Yes, agree, NZ reducing to 2 Frigates, not a smart move (especially in the long run) as it means they get worn out quicker. There was some recent debate in NZ a few weeks ago on the economy and debt whereby I think National (and/or some commentators) acknowledged that the then National Govt in the late 90's probably did the wrong thing by cutting govt expenditure during the Asian financial crisis as growth (and gdp) retracted. Whilst there was no discussion of defence projects at the time, I suppose the cutbacks affected the 3rd Frigate purchase (and then Labour canned it finally when they came to power in favour of the Project Protector). (I'm sure others can correct me if I'm wrong). If only eh, things could have easily turned out differently for the RNZN, but thanks to certain twists in time etc.

1) Yeah, Tenix............where to start?!?!?!

2) The Protector stuff is all good. Don't get me wrong on that point. Definately a good idea. But at the cost of Combat capability...?

3) I have been very harsh on the NZDF in the past, but in reality I am actually ticked at the political establishment and the prevailing views of the Left that seem to be so mainstream. The Protector program (if the ships work) does provide capabilities that the RNZN needs. It's just that (as another fellow maritime nation - in the vein of Aus, UK, Japan etc) the RNZN ought to be funded and staffed appropriately. That, to my mind, means a minimum of 3 frigates and more in the order of 4/5. It may be that anyone capable of attacking NZ requires more to defend/defeat against than NZ has, but surely serious contributions (at 2.5%GDP) would be really useful/helpful?

Brett.