The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

A

ASFC

New Member
Thanks SA

Thanks Systems Addicts-that has answered my question. I wouldn't normally ask around here, but as I said, when you are like me ( a bit of layman :wink:) and a Google search for things like 'Ark Royal Intergrated Mast' gets all the usual sources I thought I would tap DTs knowledge. Yes I am building the Illustrious in her 2005 fit.
 
R

Rose Petal

New Member
arks weather deck box.

AFSC
SA was bang on with regard to the box on her weather deck by the crane, it is a crew escape slide the likes of which are fitted to the Bays and Albions, also Endurance I think?

The After masts on Illusrrious and Ark house Communications gear and are designed to enable the kit to be accessed internally and to cut down on external wear and tear. These ships are not slated to have a Sampson MFR fitted and never were, I would not imagine any alteration to their radar fit unless they are inservice so long that Ark gets the 996 replacement or 1007/1008 is updated.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
...To quote the title of the Public Enemy song


"Don't believe the Hype !"


Wait for an Official announcement from HM Govt, rather than reading something into the regurgitated Guano from the media.

Sometimes they come close (because there is a "leak"), other times they're way off base!


Maybe it's time for the public to decide. Build more Hospitals, or Build up our armed forces.


Know, that as a UK taxpayer, my choice is with the latter...

SA
 
A

ASFC

New Member
Not only is this the same paper which in Dec 06 claimed our Navy would be half it size within six months (!) but claimed that CVF would be cancelled. Also this article has glaring errors-we don't have 9 destroyers now, and they can't make their mind up whether we have 26 Frigates or 26 Frigates and Destroyers, and claim that we have 11 Attack Submarines. Frankly all I expect British papers to do these days is scaremonger about the state of our Navy and Armed Forces in general.
 
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overlander

Member
I hope these rumours are not true as the R.N. concerning to the escort force is in the minimum possible levels and overstretched and it would be no sense to order 2 big carriers if you have not escorts to protect them.
 
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O

overlander

Member
The sad question is that i doubt very much that if conservative arrive to Downing street the defence policy would be different, british politicians are not well concerned that strong defence is an investment in segurity and safe for the population and also a deterrent that saves a lot of destruction and the life of many persons.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
if anything the escort situation is rapidly make more scence with C1/C2 being formed reusing many parts of the T23 on the new ships.

But its all academic anyway as they won't be able to start till 2019 anyway as the Shipbuilders are capacity with T45,CVF1 and 2 so wouldn't be able to start till 2019 as MARS would be also be critical and would eat up ship yard space for conversion if not construction
 
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overlander

Member
I hope that the R.N. will not suffer further reductions, it has any sense to order 2 big powerful carriers, the biggest in Europe and latter to reduce the number of other ships from the minimal and critical number they are now, in my opinion the labour government they don,t know what to do in defence exactly.
 
Musashi_kenshin

Musashi_kenshin

Well-Known Member
harryriedl said:
so wouldn't be able to start till 2019 as MARS would be also be critical and would eat up ship yard space for conversion if not construction
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You're forgetting that there's a good chance that MARS will be built overseas - or at least part of the work. That's why the UK industry was objecting so much to confirmation that bidding was being opened up to foreign shipyards.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Musashi_kenshin said:
You're forgetting that there's a good chance that MARS will be built overseas - or at least part of the work. That's why the UK industry was objecting so much to confirmation that bidding was being opened up to foreign shipyards.
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but the conversions I thought would still be in UK yards it would be built cheaply in for example in South Korea and converted to UK requirements in a UK yard like the models they are replacing?
 
A

ASFC

New Member
No MARS will probably be built as Naval Auxiliaries rather than converted Merchant vessels (like the Wave Rulers and Forts). For instance BAE's proposal involves building the ships overseas but fitting out 'sensitive' materials (guns, comms) in UK yards.

I should think as soon as capacity is released from CVF work the yards will want to get started on FSC. If they adopt the S2C2 ideas then (this is me speculating) that will mean starting off with turning out some quick C3 vessels in some of the smaller yards (VT, Appledore?) that are used to building vessels of that size. That will be about the 2014-2016 timeline (obviously) if CVF construction keeps to schedule.
 
S

swerve

Super Moderator
ASFC said:
I should think as soon as capacity is released from CVF work the yards will want to get started on FSC. If they adopt the S2C2 ideas then (this is me speculating) that will mean starting off with turning out some quick C3 vessels in some of the smaller yards (VT, Appledore?) that are used to building vessels of that size.
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According to an article in JDW (Aug 27), quoting named RN sources, the C3 has been pushed into the background & is being talked about in connection with the replacement of the minesweepers, which has a low priority because they have very long remaining hull lives*, & priority is now given to C1/C2, with the replacement of the remaining Type 22 the priority. Talk is of late next decade for the first of class commissioning. Likely to have FLAADS (i.e. the CAMM missile, probably with Artisan radar). Priority given to commonality, cost control, not over-specifying, re-using equipment where appropriate (e.g. Sonar 2087, Artisan)

*I think that the navy is keen to downplay C3 & separate it from the T22/T23 replacements, for fear that politicians & bureaucrats see it as a cheap alternative to "real warships".
 
A

ASFC

New Member
I always thought replacing Mine warfare vessels with larger ships was folly-in that case the news could be even better if they have got moving on T22 replacement!

If they can avoid the usual RN design changes halfway through the program, then costs should not go through the roof.
 
Systems Adict

Systems Adict

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
harryriedl said:
but the conversions I thought would still be in UK yards it would be built cheaply in for example in South Korea and converted to UK requirements in a UK yard like the models they are replacing?
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Conversions ???

Not converting nothing !

Building new, from scratch, utilising the Asia-Pacific Construction facilities of the likes of Hyundai or DSME in Korea & with possibly specific "sensitive items" being installed in the UK.

More info in link below...

http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/BMT/bmt_media/bmt_media/33/FinalsupportAuxiliariesbrochureover4pages.pdf



At present, I think that with the build program for T-45, Astute, CVF, the VT orders for Oman & Trinidad & Tobago, that the UK's ability to build anything for anyone would be a bit difficult, but not impossible.

Who's to say that the UK Govt wouldn't like one of their build programs slowed down, to spread costs, or even speed-ed up, to allow construction facilities to be freed up??

As I said early, speculation ("HYPE"), should be taken with a pinch of salt, not taken as gospel.

The UK still has many strings to her bow, when it comes the design & construction facilities it has, with many foreign nations still interested in having things such as ships designed & built here.

Just because the Govt purse strings are firmly tied, doesn't mean that all is lost.

Wait for THEIR comments, released from whichever dept they choose, whether it be the DTI, straight from Whitehall, Parliament or even No.10 Downing street.


:lul SA
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
Systems Adict said:
Conversions ???

Not converting nothing !

Building new, from scratch, utilising the Asia-Pacific Construction facilities of the likes of Hyundai or DSME in Korea & with possibly specific "sensitive items" being installed in the UK.

More info in link below...

http://www.bmtdsl.co.uk/BMT/bmt_media/bmt_media/33/FinalsupportAuxiliariesbrochureover4pages.pdf



At present, I think that with the build program for T-45, Astute, CVF, the VT orders for Oman & Trinidad & Tobago, that the UK's ability to build anything for anyone would be a bit difficult, but not impossible.

Who's to say that the UK Govt wouldn't like one of their build programs slowed down, to spread costs, or even speed-ed up, to allow construction facilities to be freed up??

As I said early, speculation ("HYPE"), should be taken with a pinch of salt, not taken as gospel.

The UK still has many strings to her bow, when it comes the design & construction facilities it has, with many foreign nations still interested in having things such as ships designed & built here.

Just because the Govt purse strings are firmly tied, doesn't mean that all is lost.

Wait for THEIR comments, released from whichever dept they choose, whether it be the DTI, straight from Whitehall, Parliament or even No.10 Downing street.


:lul SA
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thanks for that MARS is the next big ticket item where quite a bit needs to be worked out
 
A

ASFC

New Member
I thought MARS was going as planned-with bids for the construction of 6 Fleet Tankers being processed.

Navy-Matters has said that the Fort (II) Class will be retired on replacement by MARS (apparently being single hull tankers), but I presume that the Wave class have a secure future and are not included for replacement by MARS, being still quite young (by RFA standards) in 2020?

The way I see whilst the RNs future can be quite uncertain at times (well, depends who you listen to isn't it?), the RFA looks to have a healthy future.
 
harryriedl

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
ASFC said:
I thought MARS was going as planned-with bids for the construction of 6 Fleet Tankers being processed.

Navy-Matters has said that the Fort (II) Class will be retired on replacement by MARS (apparently being single hull tankers), but I presume that the Wave class have a secure future and are not included for replacement by MARS, being still quite young (by RFA standards) in 2020?

The way I see whilst the RNs future can be quite uncertain at times (well, depends who you listen to isn't it?), the RFA looks to have a healthy future.
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from what remember read MARS is a big program going on for many decades and will eventually be replacing all the tankers but the single hull ships are the priority as you said with the initial 6 fleet tankers. Anyone have any idea how the programs going
 
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