I just seen on local cable tv channel report that humanitarian aid, delivered to Tbilisy by US airlift contained several shipments of cash in dollars. -They told about 640 millions dollars in cash to support Saakashvilli at power. I wonder- can that be true? I have not found any other mentions in media sources. Is it common practice? And how heavy could be such amount?
Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone
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DefConGuru
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Not on it's own it doesn't. If we had details on how the tanks were used, tactically, and what they were destroyed by (from both sides) we could make a more accurate guess.
Another update, Russia and Georgia will be trading lists of prisoners. Russian tanks were reported deep in Georgia again, this time in Borzhomi and Hashuri. Given that many previous reports of the sort have been overturned later, this is likely to be another stunt. More and more reports of looting are emerging, and it seems that Russian troops have destroyed a Georgian military base near Gori. The S. Ossetian volunteer units have most likely become a source of destabilization in the region, with most of the looters coming from their ranks (as they are reportedly armed). There are several incidents of attacks on the press. Gunfire and aircraft were heard around Gori, from which Georgian police was kicked out again, shortly after returning to the city.
A press conference with Medvedev and Merkel in Russia tuned into an active debate on the status of the independent regions. Meanwhile Ukraine seems to be split down the middle, as Yuschenko support Saakashvili, Yanukovich seems to be siding with Russia, and Timoshenko has refused to talk about it. Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland contradicted the anti-Russian position of their own president. They said literally that the rally in Tbilisi in which the Polish president actively spoke out on Georgia's side, was his personal show. Chavez and Raul Castro voiced their support for Russia. But even the new NATO is split on the issue is the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Turkey voiced accusations again Georgia for the conflict. With all of this in the background, Georgian credit ratings and economic prognosis are looking worse and worse.
Another update, Russia and Georgia will be trading lists of prisoners. Russian tanks were reported deep in Georgia again, this time in Borzhomi and Hashuri. Given that many previous reports of the sort have been overturned later, this is likely to be another stunt. More and more reports of looting are emerging, and it seems that Russian troops have destroyed a Georgian military base near Gori. The S. Ossetian volunteer units have most likely become a source of destabilization in the region, with most of the looters coming from their ranks (as they are reportedly armed). There are several incidents of attacks on the press. Gunfire and aircraft were heard around Gori, from which Georgian police was kicked out again, shortly after returning to the city.
A press conference with Medvedev and Merkel in Russia tuned into an active debate on the status of the independent regions. Meanwhile Ukraine seems to be split down the middle, as Yuschenko support Saakashvili, Yanukovich seems to be siding with Russia, and Timoshenko has refused to talk about it. Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland contradicted the anti-Russian position of their own president. They said literally that the rally in Tbilisi in which the Polish president actively spoke out on Georgia's side, was his personal show. Chavez and Raul Castro voiced their support for Russia. But even the new NATO is split on the issue is the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Turkey voiced accusations again Georgia for the conflict. With all of this in the background, Georgian credit ratings and economic prognosis are looking worse and worse.
What did the Russian ambassador say?
FluffyThoughts
Member
David "The Golden Child" Cameron, England's next Prime Minister-elect calls for Russian withdrawal from all of Georgia. Many of us Brit's are trying to understand his game...!
SkyNews reports claims that Russian troops blow-up key East-West rail-bridge near Gori. So much for the words of "President" Medvedev.
Also SkyNews earlier reported that the Ukrainians have "opened their SAM-network to Europe and other allies". Does this expose Russian SAM technology and SEAD to NATO...?
Cheers
SkyNews reports claims that Russian troops blow-up key East-West rail-bridge near Gori. So much for the words of "President" Medvedev.
Also SkyNews earlier reported that the Ukrainians have "opened their SAM-network to Europe and other allies". Does this expose Russian SAM technology and SEAD to NATO...?
Cheers
GB always, to say it mildly, follow US foreign politic.
SkyNews reported so much false rubbish before, what we need many confirmations from trusted sources for anything they tell.
No, this will not change anything. Ukrainians sold all classified info and equipment they could 10 years ago already. Same thing about SAM network - de-facto they relay radar info to NATO/US 5 years already at least.
FluffyThoughts
Member
Please avoid any Western news-agencies. GWB does not see the world your way. But hay...!
:Any comment on the Ukraine's SAM offer to we westerners...?
Russia has won the battle against the Georgians: However they have lost the war. Peace is about compromise: hearts-and-minds...!
No, just dont believe them blindly without other confirmations. Some goes for all agencies - western, eastern, northern, etc. If you have other sources - say at least 2-3 other agencies correspondents personally witnessed that - then we can assume the fact happened with high probability.Please avoid any Western news-agencies. GWB does not see the world your way. But hay...!
I already answered. This is nothing new, it is not offer - it is fact already for many years. I dont understand why Ukrainian president talk about it as if it wasnt done long ago already.Any comment on the Ukraine's SAM offer to we westerners...?
Russia has won the battle against the Georgians: However they have lost the war. Peace is about compromise: hearts-and-minds...!
I agree with you.
Pretty much every militarily significant Western country has had at the very least one look at a late-model Russian SAM system (including some S-300 variants). Same thing with Israel.
Nope. They won the battle and the war.Russia has won the battle against the Georgians: However they have lost the war. Peace is about compromise: hearts-and-minds...!
The Georgians get top marks for fleeing, though.
contedicavour
New Member
I'm just back from business trip in the Ukraine from where I followed closely what was going on in Georgia. I can't believe this even happened as the outcome was obvious from the start. The Georgians proved they were serious in fighting for territorial integrity and the Russians proved that they are serious about supporting the breakaway bits of Georgia. So now back to square 1 with thousands of dead people and the local economy shattered.
The only encourageing piece of news is that European diplomacy has calmed down things a bit, for once that the EU shows some diplomatic prowess !!
The only encourageing piece of news is that European diplomacy has calmed down things a bit, for once that the EU shows some diplomatic prowess !!
Did you all catch the Russian media blitz on youtube? I thought they did a good job of getting their point of view at least out there even though the western media automatically sided with the aggressors (Georgia). Georgia pulled the pin on this garnade and tossed it, the Russians tossed it back and it exploded in Georgia's lap. Our policy makers my want to buy a chess board and start learning to play or Putin will be more than happy to give the west another lesson.
What we need is leaders who think in terms of building the outcome not constently reacting.
What we need is leaders who think in terms of building the outcome not constently reacting.
Maybe a seperate thread should be started discussing the world media, and how it picks one side or the other. I found it interesting how the US media overlooked the fact that Georgia started the chain of events. Fox News for example talked about the Russian Invasion like they were pouring through the Folda Gap!
contedicavour
New Member
Well if the Russian soldiers had stopped at the border between Ossetia and Georgia proper then they could have come out very well from the war. The fact that they occupy (although not continuously) serveral cities within Georgia proper reminds people more of an "occupation force" inside a defeated country. This automatically pushes people to side with little Georgia against big ogre Russia... if I were in the Kremlin I'd push for fast retreat not to entrench the impression they are invaders...
cheers
cheers
Disagree form Moscow's perspective Georgia had to be taught a lesson that they would not forget for a long time I looks to me that Russia is systematically destroying Georgia defens infrastructure, rolling to military bases carting off classified material maybe some useful NATO, US, and or Israeli equipment for reverse engineering.
We have only Georgia to blame for this had they not disobeyed us we would not be having this discussion they proved warlike and should not be considered for Nato membership.
We have only Georgia to blame for this had they not disobeyed us we would not be having this discussion they proved warlike and should not be considered for Nato membership.
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So Medvedev signed the 6-point agreement, but rumors are coming out the Medvedev and Saakashvili signed different versions of the agreement. There are no news on Gori or Russian presence in Poti or Senaki.
Britain and Canada also refused to take part in the FRUKUS-2008 exercises with Russia, however joint exercises with France are still to go ahead as scheduled in the Pacific ocean.
A railroad bridge in Georgia was demolished between Gori and Tbilisi. Residents report that unknown men in camouflage drove up to the bridge in a jeep, laid the explosives, and blew it up. Georgian communications with Armenia are now broken. Georgia accused Russia of doing it, but Russian General-Colonel Anatoliy Nogovitsuin denied the accusations on Russian television.
Russia has also reportedly made off with large stockpiles of Georgian arms, including those left at Gori, Senaki, and Poti. Russia is now expected to withdraw from Gori around the 15-16 of August. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense; 65 Georgian tanks were captured by Russia in the conflict zone. Combined with the ones destroyed in the fighting, this puts a serious dent in the Georigan military. In addition to this 5 units of Osa SAMs, 15 BMP-2 IFV's, as well as some Americans APC's and D-30 howitzers in unspecified quantities. Significant numbers of firearms were removed from the base at Senaki including around 800 M-16 and another 750 AK-74's.
Britain and Canada also refused to take part in the FRUKUS-2008 exercises with Russia, however joint exercises with France are still to go ahead as scheduled in the Pacific ocean.
A railroad bridge in Georgia was demolished between Gori and Tbilisi. Residents report that unknown men in camouflage drove up to the bridge in a jeep, laid the explosives, and blew it up. Georgian communications with Armenia are now broken. Georgia accused Russia of doing it, but Russian General-Colonel Anatoliy Nogovitsuin denied the accusations on Russian television.
Russia has also reportedly made off with large stockpiles of Georgian arms, including those left at Gori, Senaki, and Poti. Russia is now expected to withdraw from Gori around the 15-16 of August. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense; 65 Georgian tanks were captured by Russia in the conflict zone. Combined with the ones destroyed in the fighting, this puts a serious dent in the Georigan military. In addition to this 5 units of Osa SAMs, 15 BMP-2 IFV's, as well as some Americans APC's and D-30 howitzers in unspecified quantities. Significant numbers of firearms were removed from the base at Senaki including around 800 M-16 and another 750 AK-74's.
Do you really think Georgia disobeyed US? With 128 US employers on official government positions in Georgia? With WHOLE Georgian government officially monthly becoming salary from one of US "independent" fonds?
With about 300 (may be more, but 300 are official) US military advisors in Georgian army? Do you really believe Saakashvilli acted independently? US certainly knew about his actions and plans. After all, they mastered these themselves.
What is however not completely clear is if US ordered the attack at the exact moment or Saakashvilli just launched it a bit too early at his own risk with US government thinking "ah well, let him try".
Btw, i also think US seriously underestimated the rage and cruelty of Georgian nationalists and consequence of them entering S. Ossetia. Or may be not ... but i try to think good about americans
Georgia accuses Russia of destroying bridge
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/16/georgia.russia.war/index.html
Georgians doing forced labor in South Ossetia
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/16/europe/EU-Georgia-Forced-Laborers.php
To racap: Georgia 2008 Path To War http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/georgia-2008-1.htm
War in Georgia
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/georgia.htm
The Russians are aren't going to miss this opportunity to exploit their victory- that's why they are removing and/or destroying military related gear & infrastructure, to farther weaken Georgia and effect the "regime change" in Tbilisi. Permanently occupying entire area isn't their goal-just keeping it outside the American orbit is enough! Georgia may well desintegrate farther- there are many factions waiting to settle their scores!
The Russian Army will keep 44 captured Georgian tanks-
http://www.rian.ru/osetia/20080816/150423062.html
They were made in the Ukraine- http://www.rosbalt.ru/2008/8/16/514314.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/16/georgia.russia.war/index.html
Georgians doing forced labor in South Ossetia
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/16/europe/EU-Georgia-Forced-Laborers.php
To racap: Georgia 2008 Path To War http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/georgia-2008-1.htm
War in Georgia
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/georgia.htm
The Russians are aren't going to miss this opportunity to exploit their victory- that's why they are removing and/or destroying military related gear & infrastructure, to farther weaken Georgia and effect the "regime change" in Tbilisi. Permanently occupying entire area isn't their goal-just keeping it outside the American orbit is enough! Georgia may well desintegrate farther- there are many factions waiting to settle their scores!
The Russian Army will keep 44 captured Georgian tanks-
http://www.rian.ru/osetia/20080816/150423062.html
They were made in the Ukraine- http://www.rosbalt.ru/2008/8/16/514314.html
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Everyone should note, what said railroad provide very important transport link from Russia to close russian ally - Armenia. It makes whole lot of sense to blow up the railroad to "punish" Armenia for taking sides with Russia. However, rumors what damage to railroad was fairly minor, with bridge still fully intact.
Do you really think Georgia disobeyed US? With 128 US employers on official government positions in Georgia? With WHOLE Georgian government officially monthly becoming salary from one of US "independent" fonds?
With about 300 (may be more, but 300 are official) US military advisors in Georgian army? Do you really believe Saakashvilli acted independently? US certainly knew about his actions and plans. After all, they mastered these themselves.
What is however not completely clear is if US ordered the attack at the exact moment or Saakashvilli just launched it a bit too early at his own risk with US government thinking "ah well, let him try".
Btw, i also think US seriously underestimated the rage and cruelty of Georgian nationalists and consequence of them entering S. Ossetia. Or may be not ... but i try to think good about americans
Chrom.
Keep your speculative anti American point of view out of this thread, all you are doing at this point is trying to take this thread down the same road that got all the other similar ones closed. The American advisors are there to help assist with training Georgians on the Iraqi rotations, and there is not 300 of them in Georgia, if something more concrete comes out on American knowledge on what the Georgians were up to then post it, not your speculative BS.
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