Russia-Georgia Conflict: News From the War zone

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Feanor

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Please everyone, take the politics and energy policy discussion elsewhere. This thread is for posting news (NEWS!) and analysis (not arguing about who's right and wrong) while the other thread is locked. Mods please keep this thread open for now, as for many people this forum is the primary source of up to date info on the conflict.

12:15 in the Georgian part of the Kodori Gorge, the Abkhazian flag was raised.
13:20 Despite end of combat operations, Russian recon teams are still operating outside the conflict zone, in Georgia proper. It seems these recon teams were the troops that had entered Senaki and Gori, Georgian forces retreating in a hurry may have mistaken them for avantgarde of the main force.
13:40 General HQ from the Russian side confirmed that high-precision munitions were used in the conflict.
13:40 Russian troops have taken over the airbase at Senaki and all of Abkhazia that was previously in Georgian hands.
13:49 No Georgian troops are leaving the conflict zone.
13:50 General HQ denies bombing of oil-pipelines.
14:00 Russian General HQ requests for international observers in the conflict zone.
14:36 NATO has announced that they will look at the possibility of military aid to Georgia, whether this will be to rebuild the Georgian military, or to directly support Georgia I don't know.
15:16 Yakobashvili (Georgian minister) said that war is not over for Georgia as long as Russian troops are there.
16:35 Georgia announces planned withdrawal from the CIS.
16:58 Georgian forces shelled Russian positions after Russia has declared an end to combat operations.
17:33 Saakashvili annuls all agreements about Abkhazian status and declares it occupied territory.
18:00 Saakashvili says he personally saw Russian tanks and artillery destroy Ts'hinvali. :rolleyes: :D
19:50 The American injured int he fighting turned out to be a journalist.
20:30 Abkhazia declared an end to the Kodori Gorge operation, saying it's now completely under Abkhazian control
20:45 Georgia appeals to the U.N. court which says it's ready to look at the military operations in Ossetia.
20:46 Russia declares it had captured Georgian plans for invasion of Abkhazia.

Photos and timeline from lenta.ru
Georgian tank column.

Abkhazian soldier


Also Colonel-General Nogovitsuin reported that the Russian military did not enter any areas of Georgia outside the conflict zones of Abkhazia and Ossetia, at the same vowed that Russian recon units would continue recon into Georgia proper.

Colonel-General Nogovitsuin


Finally a little more elaboration on the precision weapons used from kommersant, which reported that they were the KAB-500L laser-guided bombs.

Photo from rian.ru

 

Pro'forma

New Member
Its glad to see russian finally realising their participating in peace can be useful. Only yet the troops are in georgian surface.

I have no way to courage any 'living in exile' way of life; yet the territorial
integrity has not attain to its place.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Keep this thread on topic, do not digress into personal theories, biased discussion or opinion. This thread is strictly for legitimate news of the combat operations of Georgia and Russia.
 

Dago

New Member
Good information. Looking forward to hearing more updates as they become forthcoming. Is there any information of TU-160's Blackjack operating? I've heard unconfirmed reports. The likelyhood would signal yes as it's close to Russia Strategic arm.
 

Feanor

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Accuracy issues in both reports. At this point it's clear that Russia never took Gori and that Russian troops weren't involved in the Abkhazian offensive. It was a purely Abkhazian move to retake the Kodori Gorge. The entry of Russian peacekeepers into Zugdidi was apparently done with Georgian permission and without any fighting.

Finally the Russian move was not a trap. Given the relatively poor (in my opinion) performance of the VVS it wasn't ready for this. Russian response from th 58th Army was fast because the 58th Army had only recently completed the Caucus 2008 training exercise which was in preparation for exactly this type of operation. Overall Georgian forces were very well composed and almost completely took Ts'hinvali. At one point the only real resistance left in the city was near the road heading iirc north out of the city.

The real motivation is closer to Georgia. The december NATO shot was a no-go if there were two frozen conflicts and German and French opposition. However if Georgia could resolve the conflicts and thus display Russia as powerless, it would have had a much better chance.

Finally some news out of the conflict zone. Russian troops are now posed on the borders of Georgia and Abkhazia, with apparently some Russian troops in Georgia proper, in Zugdidi. The Russian Navy is deployed to Abkhazia and the sinking of one Georgian missile boat has been confirmed by Tbilisi. Also the bombing of the Tbilisi airport radar and the taking of Gori have now been confirmed to be untrue by the Georgians. There are still small groups of Georgian forces in Ossetia that are being rouded up by Russian forces. Russian humanitarian aid convoys have arrived in Southern Ossetia.

On the political front a plan for settlement has been developed between Sarkozi and Medvedev, the plan is now on it's way to Tbilisi for agreement from the Georgian side. The plan includes international diplomatic effort for the problems of S. Ossetia and Abkhazia, but conspicuously lacks anything in regards to Georgian territorial integrity. When Sarkozi was questioned about that by the press he dodged the question whie re-affirming that Russia still recognizes Georgia as a sovereign country.

Russian casualties for the conflict seem to be 18-21 dead, 70 wounded, and 4 planes downed. Georgian casualties are unconfirmed, but I've seen 150 as the most recent number including civlians and military. 3 downed Georgian planes, and ~22 tanks destroyed in the direct hostilities. A number of tanks was also destroyed by air strikes.
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
@Feanor,

Here is a different angle photo of the same tank that I posted a couple of days ago, you can see the ERA arrangement alot better.
 
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Feanor

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Yeah you can. So it's confirmed that it's a Russian tank and that K-5 has been retrofitted to T-72's?

EDIT: It can't be a T-90, there aren't any in the conflict zone. Could it be a Georgian tank? The Russian MoD didn't report any tank casualties. And another after thought, could the Russian casualties be much higher then those officially reported? Georgia claims 400 Russians dead, Russian MoD claims 21.
 

DefConGuru

New Member
Would Georgian tanks be carrying extra fuel? It could be a Georgian T-72 fitted with some ERA and slat protection.

In regards to casualities, if anything the Georgians are low balling their own figures of 150 dead including civilians...
 

JohanGrön

New Member
And another after thought, could the Russian casualties be much higher then those officially reported? Georgia claims 400 Russians dead, Russian MoD claims 21.
Swedish media (TT) reported that russian casualties are much higher than officially recognized from russian authorities. No figures are given but the intel was supposedly coming directly from russian servicemen involved in the conflict. I'll try to dig up a link to this!

EDIT: Found it, it's two days old and ran on numerous newssites in Sweden.

Here's one of them (in swedish).
(h)ttp://nyhetskanalen.se/1.575679/2008/08/11/ryska_trupper_inne_i_georgien

Informationen om krisen präglas av desinformation och ren propaganda, där bägge sidor föreföll vackla mellan att vilja framstå som den starkaste - eller den mest förfördelade - i konflikten.
Ryska soldater på sjukhuset i nordossetiska Vladikavkaz berättade för reportrar på plats att georgierna gör hårdare motstånd än vad den ryska militärledningen erkänner.
-Det som sägs på tv är bara nonsens. Våra förluster är mycket större än de säger.
Människorättsorganisationen Human Rights Watch (HRW) anklagade Ryssland för att överdriva uppgifterna om döda och fördrivna sydossetier. Enligt Ryssland har uppskattningsvis 2 000 sydossetier dödats, men enligt HRW är siffrorna lägre. HRW tror också att de ryska uppgifterna om antalet flyktingar från regionen - senast 30 000 - är felaktiga eftersom många flyende kan ha räknats mer än en gång.

Translation:
The information on the crisis is marked by disinformation and pure propaganda, in which both sides seemed to vacillate between wanting to appear to be the strongest - or the most aggrieved - in the conflict. Russian soldiers at the hospital in Vladikavkaz (North Ossetia) told reporters on the ground that Georgians make tougher opposition than what the Russian military acknowledges.

"- What it is said on TV are just nonsense. Our losses are much greater than they say."

The human rights organisation Human Rights Watch (HRW) accused Russia of exaggerating information on the dead and displaced South Ossetians. According to Russia has an estimated 2 000 South Ossetians were killed, but according to HRW, figures are lower. HRW also believe that the Russian data on the number of refugees from the region - the last 30 000 - are inaccurate because many escaping may have been counted more than once.
 
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What are the Balts and the Ukrainians up to? A de facto alliance against Russia that will draw NATO into further deployments on the Russian border?

Russia may have won the battle: have they lost the diplomatic war? Do we have any independent (non-NATO/EU/Russian) views on this conflict..?
 

nevidimka

New Member
The CNn kept reporting that Gerogia has about 7 combat planes. B4 the war started didn't Georgia have about 100+?

Also if Nato tries to absorb Ukraine, I think there will be some form of Russian intervention militarily or the breakup of Ukraine.

Seriously if these former Soviet States think they are improving their security by joining NATO they are seriously mistaken. They are instead making their territory even more vulnerable to war and a possible nuclear strike.
 

Ozzy Blizzard

New Member
The CNn kept reporting that Gerogia has about 7 combat planes. B4 the war started didn't Georgia have about 100+?

Also if Nato tries to absorb Ukraine, I think there will be some form of Russian intervention militarily or the breakup of Ukraine.

Seriously if these former Soviet States think they are improving their security by joining NATO they are seriously mistaken. They are instead making their territory even more vulnerable to war and a possible nuclear strike.
Mate i have to disagree with you there. The Russians have shown their regional power status by this conflict (realistically this was allways going to be the outcome), but if you think Putin is going to intervene military with a NATO member then you're crazier than he would be. By its very foundations any military action on a NATO member means a full millitary response from every member. If any member refused to defend the Ukraine the alliance would effectively dissolve, and no major EU power (or the yanks) are going to let the cornerstone of their security evaporate over a minor conflict with the Russians.

This aggressive action will have two effects in Russia's FSU neighbors. If they have the option they will align even closer with a competing power (i.e. the west or China) or they will cow to the Russians. In the case of the Ukraine, a nation who already has significant (and popular) western leanings and NATO membership intentions, this will only drive them headlong into the hands of the west, who will realize that the only thing that will stop Russian aggression is NATO membership. If anything this little Georgian adventure will swell the ranks of NATO.

As for the breakup of the Ukraine, somehow i doubt that.
 

Chrom

New Member
Russian MOD briefing: Overalll russian combined losses:

74 KIA
171 WIA
19 MIA (including possible captured by Georgians)

The data are still not final.

Ossetian army/police losses are not public, but should be several times greater.

Russians final losses will be in order 100-120 KIA i think

Georgian army losses - at least 1200 KIA and 3000-4000 MIA, but real figures are still not publicized.
 
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