Burunsuzoglu
New Member
It will in effect be a K2, with German engine, Turkish 120mm smooth bore gun (with capacity for 150mm) and fire and control system from ASELAN.
New turkish tank !!???
- Thread starter deathomen
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Burunsuzoglu
New Member
$500m was paid to OTOKAR for R&D - $400 is separate and the final cost will be far in excess.
You may be right. But I think $900m(500m+400m) is too much for R&D + technical transfer to develop a K-2 likely tank. Well, K-2's R&D budget was only $230m and now the turkish project will spend 4 times of the Korean budget for a similar tank. Do you think it is proper?
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
Proper or not it proves we will proceed no matter what, we have been let down by our so called allies far too often. With regards to the $230m spent by the Koreans, you have to bear in mind they are building on their experience with the K1.
DefConGuru
New Member
I would agree as a neutral spectator that Turkey and others amongst the militarily and socially advanced Moslem countries of the world get back stabbed or receive low blows when it comes to defence, and in one extreme case have resorted to developing nuclear weapons to compensate for the negligence exhibited by large arms producing nations, namely the United States. Everything they do seems counterproductive to maintaining a peaceful earth.
Go Turkey Go. :nutkick
You do realize that the K1 was designed with alot of American influence, matter of fact the first few prototypes were built in the U.S.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
Yep - basically a licence produced M1A1 - besides there is no such thing as a free lunch, as soon someone offers us free equipment the first thought that comes into my head is how much is it going to cost us to upgrade it; a good example is the A10's the US marines keep trying to palm off to us
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
No such thing as a free lunch - we may have been given the tanks for free but the upgrades cost us the earth.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
No choice - have to rely on ASELAN to knock them into shape.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
The article doesnt mention anything about Aselsan going into hydrolic business. Aselsan is an electronics based company and if like you said Leo2s have serious maintenance problems they will probably go to Army's factories (Kayseri?) for refurbishment not Aselsan. No one is asking you to waste your time but if you make a claim back it up with some serious information.
Burunsuzoglu, you do realize that Kato talked about the Leopard 1s Turkey got for free.
He did this as a reply to your post about Germany not wanting them to be used for interior duty. And I fully agree with him on this. Don't you think that somebody who gives you Leopard 1s for free as military aid should be allowed to restrict their use? Their were a gift with the goal of strengthening Turkey's defense capabilities in the wider context of NATO.
And it should be obvious that in the 80's Leopard 1s were not obsolete and getting them for free is nothing to moan about.
All this has nothing to do with the current Leopard 2 deal. The Leopard 2s were bought by Turkey. And if they have to replace some pipes, so what? Do you know if Turkey ordered refurbished/zeroed Leos or of they just bought them out of the depot? I don't know it and if you also don't know it you cannot argue that Germany delivered shit.
BTW, M60s are better suited for counterinsurgency duty anyway. The Leopard 1 cannot rely on it's strength, the good mobility, during such a scenario while a M60 is protected by better armor.
He did this as a reply to your post about Germany not wanting them to be used for interior duty. And I fully agree with him on this. Don't you think that somebody who gives you Leopard 1s for free as military aid should be allowed to restrict their use? Their were a gift with the goal of strengthening Turkey's defense capabilities in the wider context of NATO.
And it should be obvious that in the 80's Leopard 1s were not obsolete and getting them for free is nothing to moan about.
All this has nothing to do with the current Leopard 2 deal. The Leopard 2s were bought by Turkey. And if they have to replace some pipes, so what? Do you know if Turkey ordered refurbished/zeroed Leos or of they just bought them out of the depot? I don't know it and if you also don't know it you cannot argue that Germany delivered shit.
BTW, M60s are better suited for counterinsurgency duty anyway. The Leopard 1 cannot rely on it's strength, the good mobility, during such a scenario while a M60 is protected by better armor.
There are absolutely no terms or conditions or restrictions or whatever on Leopard 2A4's purchased by Turkey and they are well in shape except the inital problems encountered (and eventually fixed). The talks on a second batch of 41 tanks finalized and they are going to be selected from reserves. From the very beginning they were planned to be purchased for NorthWestern Turkey, i.e Thrace Region, to counter-balance the modern MBT threat posed by Greece by the induction of Leopard 2A4 and A6's as an interim solution until the critical date, which is around 2012. This is the year when all Greece's Leopard 2A4 and A6 tanks will enter service and become fully operational. Thus, surplus Leopard 2A4 purchase was meant to stop the critical MBT gap until the new MBT starts entering service. The MBT project already delayed 1-2 years now, so the additional 41 tank-purchase can be seen to fill this additional gap.
M-60T modernization was for the tanks in South - SouthEastern sector, to face the threat posed mainly by T-series tanks. MBT's have secondary role in the ongoing Low Intensity Conflict in SouthEastern Anatolia / Northern Iraq, so they are primarily -not solely- for the Southern Sector, i.e Syria.
M-60T modernization was for the tanks in South - SouthEastern sector, to face the threat posed mainly by T-series tanks. MBT's have secondary role in the ongoing Low Intensity Conflict in SouthEastern Anatolia / Northern Iraq, so they are primarily -not solely- for the Southern Sector, i.e Syria.
They initially started out as K1`s that were influenced by the 105mm equipped M1 series, 120mm equipped K1A1 did not come out until the late nineties and yes we still provide some of the TTS sights for them while the Germans are still doing engines/transmissions, the L-44 also is Korean produced but under German agreemant.
And you meant to say the A10s that the U.S Airforce is trying to pawn off correct.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
I know it only too well from bitter experience as I was stuck in one of those dilapidated M48s and I can tell you for fact we could have done with the Leopards. More over we got nothing for free, its simple economics most manufactures make more cash from spare parts than they do from the product its self.
Fact remains and were are not talking about one or two we are talking about the whole batch - you cant find the spare parts, who ever procured those tanks deserves to be dragged before a court martial.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
Pawn I can live with, I actually heard that the military estimated that it would cost around $10bn to get the A10s up to scratch, no wonder the USA has been trying to give them away for free, cheaper than scarping one would assume. Besides what the hell are we going to with A10s, they may be OK for taking out T55s on the green plains of Germany or the deserts of Iraq but lets see you take out insurgent in some godforsaken cave on the Iran/Iraq border.They initially started out as K1`s that were influenced by the 105mm equipped M1 series, 120mm equipped K1A1 did not come out until the late nineties and yes we still provide some of the TTS sights for them while the Germans are still doing engines/transmissions, the L-44 also is Korean produced but under German agreemant.
And you meant to say the A10s that the U.S Airforce is trying to pawn off correct.
Burunsuzoglu
New Member
Incompetence - corruption, take your pick.
Licence produced M1?!? Does the M1(A1) have a hybrid hydro-pneumatic suspension (which provides vehicle attitude control or 'kneeling' capability)? Is it equipped with a turbo-charged 1,200hp MTU MB 871 diesel engine? Does it way just 54 tons?
Following early design work based on US M1 technology, the K1 tank was designed and produced by Korea with substantial GD assistance. However, it is not a (licenced or unlicenced) copy of the M1.