Caucasian Powderkeg?

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nevidimka

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Hmm.. with all the talk about Georgian territorial integrity coming from the US and western leaders, I wonder if Serbia has any Territorial Integrity....

Oh.. wait a minute.. there goes Western justice out the window! and say hello to Western hypocricy.

I think Putin flew to N.Ossetia coz he'd rather go to there then to sit n listen to Bush's tinted eyed view of what should be done. LOL.


OK on a more serious note, CNN is making a very detailed presentation of a Russian attack that accidently hit a civilian apartment.
 
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comrade004

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does georgia even have a fighting chance against russia??
correct me if im wrong but doesnt georgia use all old russian equimpment
 
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Chrom

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comrade004 said:
does georgia even have a fighting chance against russia??
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For limited time. Russia need several days at least to transfer comparable (to Georgian) ground forces to Ossetia. Also, several days to relocate additional aviation. Up to several weeks to reallocate enough ground forces to have any chance assaulting Tbilisi.

Even now russian forces in Ossetia are greatly inferior (in numbers) to Georgian forces.

correct me if im wrong but doesnt georgia use all old russian equimpment
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Mostly, yes. But some of that equipment is upgraded with western tech - ex. SU-25 were upgraded with Israel avionic, T-72 upgraded ... forgot which help. Also were are a lot of western equipment there - UAV, comms, infantry equipment, APC, artillery, MLRS. Whole Georgian army is explicitly designed, trained and equipped by US instructors - even now up to 300 US military instructors were in Georgia.

P.S. Unconfirmed: Russian Navy "light missile boat" was engaged by 4 Georgian vessels and fired 1 ASM, sinking 1 Georgian ship.

Black Sea russian navy enforced blockade over Georgian ports.
 
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-=R!T=-

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HI ALL...I missed some messages....Russian commander confirmed loss of tu22m3(backfire)...it was shoted by S-200...pilot was taken prisoner and now in hospital (heavy wounded)...Tbilisi showed his passport...Its coarse omission of russian intelligence ...they dont know about ukranian delivery of that old rocket complex...now it was destroyed with all UKRANIAN crew by rocket from airplane...i wrote ukranian and wasnt mistaken...georgians havent skilled personal...So what about possibility of Ukraine to help Iran to create rocket shield?
 
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Chrom

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-=R!T=- said:
HI ALL...I missed some messages....Russian commander confirmed loss of tu22m3(backfire)...it was shoted by S-200...pilot was taken prisoner and now in hospital (heavy wounded)...Tbilisi showed his passport...Its coarse omission of russian intelligence ...they dont know about ukranian delivery of that old rocket complex...now it was destroyed with all UKRANIAN crew by rocket from airplane...i wrote ukranian and wasnt mistaken...georgians havent skilled personal...So what about possibility of Ukraine to help Iran to create rocket shield?
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This is
1. Unconfirmed (i mean, S-200)
2. Seems very unlikely. S-200 is not a small thing to hide when it operates - and it MUST have operated at least some time before the war.

I'm almost sure Tu-22m3 was shot down by either S-75 or Buk-1M (SA-11).
 
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-=R!T=-

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Its fun but i found in net article dated march this year about forecastin georgian invasion to Osetia...:confused:...and one from possible variants is coinsiding with reality FULLY (with all used weapons and numbers of troops and names of divisions...with all declarations)...Now terrible sequel...US ships near Georgia...US land FORCE in zone of conflict...collision at sea...destruction of some american ships and chained others...US withdrawal...then...destroyin of russian tank division by american experienced tankists (300 abrahams were transfered from US after sea defeat)...Russian nuke strike at georgian city...destroin big part of Georgia...russians and american conversation and withdrawal to until war positions...I was really scared:(...and its no joke....i have printed materials in my hands now...I HOPE it woulnt come true...
Article in russian so i cant translate it to english ...but i can give web adress
 
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-=R!T=-

New Member
Chrom said:
This is
1. Unconfirmed (i mean, S-200)
2. Seems very unlikely. S-200 is not a small thing to hide when it operates - and it MUST have operated at least some time before the war.

I'm almost sure Tu-22m3 was shot down by either S-75 or Buk-1M (SA-11).
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But it not too big...If serbians hid some migs during american air strikes...so why not?...with skilled personal...when all eyes on North of Georgia...
 
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swerve

Super Moderator
eaf-f16 said:
Also, S.Ossetians genuinely want independence from Georgia's violently oppressive government. This isn't just some movement created by Russia. This is a real movement by the people.

I'm going to ease of the politics, now (I think I've pushed my luck far enough). You can PM if you want though.
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Good idea. I'll just say this -

1. Don't assume I support everything my government, let alone the US government, does. I disagreed with the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

2. S. Ossetia has a choice of two futures: part of Georgia, in which case it has a chance of peace & prosperity (but only if Georgians behave better than recently - I agree with you there), or as a dependency of Russia. Independence in anything other than name is not an option. 45000 people, with one road connecting them with the outside world via Russia, an economy in ruins & no economic assets they can exploit to finance rebuilding, will find that unless Russia pumps in money for make-work to keep people employed, the remaining population will drift away.

The whole thing is very sad. Both Russia & Georgia have screwed the Ossetians. What they need is some kind of special administrative status within Georgia, but I don't see that being possible now.
 
Feanor

Feanor

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Ok so Abkhazia after a Russian airstrike opened up a second front attacking the Kodori Gorge. Georgians attempted to attack Ts'hinvali again with artillery and air strikes but shortly afterwards were driven back and Russian forces captured the Priiskiye heights where Georgian artillery was located. Russian aircraft continued air strikes. Here are some photos of Abkahzian forces, courtesy of newsru.com









On the political side Georgian troops are being pulled from Iraq and Azerbaijan stopped oil transit through Georgian ports. Georgia offered a ceasefire to Russian forces in Ts'hinvali.

Georgia admits to taking 40 military personell and 15 civilians as casualties. South Ossetian forces are reporting 10 Georgian tanks destroyed, and the Black Sea Fleet is positioning itself for a blockade of Georgia.

 
Feanor

Feanor

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They were offered wide autonomy within Georgia but didn't want it. They want to be integrated into Russia and made several annexation requests. So I think the choice they made is a fairly obvious one. As for the economy, they were doing fine before the conflict (as fine as a small third/second world mountainous region with nothing of economic significance can be doing). I see no reason why they can't go on with their lives in the same way after the conflict provided that the winner rebuilds infrastructure.
 
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Chrom

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-=R!T=- said:
But it not too big...If serbians hid some migs during american air strikes...so why not?...with skilled personal...when all eyes on North of Georgia...
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1. US knew about serbian migs. Hidden them from strike is one thing, secretly purchasing and deploying them - is a whole different matter.

2. S-200 should have at least partially train/operate before conflict. Russians just couldnt miss new powerful military radar operating in Georgia even totally blinded.

For surprise attack against russian bombers, Buk-1M is much more suitable.
 
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nevidimka

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Wow, how does a breakaway region like Abkhazia come into possesion of so much military Hardware? The ABkhazians started to attack the georgians because they suspect that the georgians will use the same S.Ossetian tactics against them had it been a victorious 1.

Also, hows does the Georgian T-72 had all its ERA intact n yet its turret uprooted?
 
Feanor

Feanor

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eaf-f16 said:
Is the SA-11 system confirmed to be in the possession of Georgia? How did they manage to get it?
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They were allegedly sold by Ukraine.

nevidimka said:
Wow, how does a breakaway region like Abkhazia come into possesion of so much military Hardware? The ABkhazians started to attack the georgians because they suspect that the georgians will use the same S.Ossetian tactics against them had it been a victorious 1.
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They stole them from soviet stocks, bought them from Russia, captured it from Georgia.

Also, hows does the Georgian T-72 had all its ERA intact n yet its turret uprooted?
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A billion ways. Landmines. A penetration into the bottom of the turret where there is no era, and ammunition cooking off. A rear-shot hitting the lower part of the turret. Finally it could've been abandoned due to technical problems by retreating troops and detonated from the inside to prevent it being captured intact. Iraqi's did that quite a bit.
 
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Chrom

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eaf-f16 said:
Is the SA-11 system confirmed to be in the possession of Georgia? How did they manage to get it?
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Yes, it is confirmed long ago. They were shipped in 2007 by Ukraina. It is not any violation or something - just pretty normal weapon trade. Ukraina didnt officially declared this selling, but then again there is no obligation.
 
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Chrom

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Firehorse said:
Will there be any action by Russian marines? Are there any amhib landing ships heading toward Georgia? How about MVD troops helping the regular Russian army?
As for me, I sensed something big was going to happen after learning that the railway troops were sent to Abhazia!
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There are no action by marines mentioned. MVD of course dont provide any help to regular troops as main problem to relocate and support regular troops throu pretty thin single road as is. Plus, of course, it make much more sense to use MVD troops to re-take some duties from relocated regular troops in Chechnya.
 
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